Assss this time
1/3 NLHE mostly 9 handed
We came in at 6pm Monday to two games running, side game was better so we chilled there for an hour until a few nits sat down and then the main got better so now we're seat 1 on main. We have not 1, not 2, but 3 unknown maniacs dumping. All the reg grinders including myself are getting deep as the maniacs continue to rebuy. Several interesting hands going on.
V - Uknown swarthy maniac. 'Maniac' not a perfect description. Maybe a whale. Betting large, stabbing a lot, but also calling very wide and VPIPing about 80-90%. He's been a constant layover in my pots with other regs giving me great odds to chase. From his speech he doesn't understand poker. But a mix of aggression and passivity for any size.
HH1: Bomb pot goes 9-ways, V has K♦ J♦ IP, +EV rock/TAG bets 20 MP, two calls, V shoves 450 with K-high on both boards, gets called by one fish, boards are like A-7-2 and 7-6-3 one ♦ on each, runouts are blank. V scoops somehow.
HH2 (would like advice): Asian station who watches hustler and studies opens 12 LJ, V just sat down first hand in HJ (500$ max) calls 12, SB tight face up unknown calls 12, H sees red 55 in BB and calls. 4-ways 2nd to act. 6♦ 5♣ 4♦ check, I donk 20 into 45, Asian station calls, V raises to 65, SB folds, H to 125, Asian station folds, V to 250 (with ~240 back), H shoves, Result:
Spoiler
V tanks for a good 3-5 minutes before folding saying he had 44
---- This hand occurs much later than HH2 after V has gone to side game, somehow run up a massive stack and then decided to come back ----
---- H effective stack 1.4k, V covers with ~2k ----
We straddle UTG 6, we're eating a salad and not really paying attention, V just sat down in Seat 9 and paid BB and we didn't notice, folds all the way to V in BB who makes it 30, we see A♠ A♣ and make it 100, V calls. HU IP. I have to put down my salad.
Flop 200 - T♠ 8♥ 6♠
V checks, H bets 125, V calls
Turn 450 - J♠
V checks, H checks
River 450 - Q♠
V leads 250, Hero? ... we have 1175 back...
Call me a nit, I'm only calling this deep.
I'm also sizing up preflop+flop.
Also, I think I'm betting turn.
Gotta say I almost never make Monday my poker outing, but just 2 tables running at 6:00pm, yikes! But then to have 3 maniacs at a single table?!?! Super weird environment you have there.
I'm fine with HH2 against this player type.
How do stack sizes get so deep in your game? It boggles my mind coming from a $500 BI cap game myself (although admittedly only a ~small percentage of players BI for the maximum). These stack sizes are out of my wheelhouse, but...
Man, you really have to pay attention to who is coming to the table, especially when a seat right beside you opens up. Like it would be the disaster of all disasters if you didn't slide into the open seat if it was the one to your left he was about to move into. Turns out salad could be bad for your health if you're going to allow that to happen. 😀
Man, I find preflop super difficult at this extreme stack size, or maybe it's just cuz I have no experience in it. Our raise size offers him somewhat ~okish 18:1 IO in what will be an SPR pot of 6.5 (where it will be trivial for him to make us play for stacks). Although I guess there will be times he'll just blow off stacks with the worst of it anyways? Is there any way we can get away with more preflop against this guy? I'll also be perfectly honest. HU in position with no other dead money and no one else to deny equity from and this ridonkously deep, I'd actually flat preflop against most (admitting this guy might be the exception) and just setup a calldown for reasonable $$ in position. Again out of my wheelhouse here.
Think I'm fine with flop / turn and now think I jam the river. Saw one of our room's biggest marks lose a hugenormous pot exactly like this with lol Ks, so don't let that hand off the hook.
GcluelessNLnoobG
Please bet the turn. Please.
As played, raise to $600 or so? Let's hope he can't fold Ks. Shove is an option, but he'd have to be really bad to call. If he has a straight flush, that's a huge cooler.
FWIW, I'm fine w/ how you played HH2, and I don't believe V.
Dang, you keep getting into hands where the straight flush is possible, esp given the villains have a wide range. And you're deep stacked again.
I kinda think we need a heuristic for when to go with the A high flush and when you gotta fear the reaper
Really the only point in betting the turn is if he'll call with Tx or worse - for most players especially given how big this pot is that will never happen, so I would default check.
I think turn is a small bet.
River i wouldn't jam. Probably 650 or so. Do not flat, jesus.
Do NOT flat aces pre like GG said too Jesus christ shoot me.
Please bet the turn. Please.
As played, raise to $600 or so Let's hope he can't fold Ks. Shove is an option, but he'd have to be really bad to call. If he has a straight flush, that's a huge cooler.
FWIW, I'm fine w/ how you played HH2, and I don't believe V.
Why is checking the turn bad? If you bet and get raised it's a disaster. You don't really need any protection. Surely this is the perfect hand to protect your check back range?
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Jam river against a whale.
There's also a good argument for betting turn. Solver likely bets this combo. You continue to get value from hands like pair plus FD. You build the pot so you can stack him if he has any spade when the fourth spade rolls off.
Dang, you keep getting into hands where the straight flush is possible, esp given the villains have a wide range. And you're deep stacked again.
I kinda think we need a heuristic for when to go with the A high flush and when you gotta fear the reaper
If you have the Ah flush, you should be ok with getting stacked when you run into a SF. You'll lose far more not getting it in when you have the chance than you'll ever lose to a SF.
@OP, my advice is jam it in and get back to your salad. If he has the SF, this is a hand you're supposed to go broke with. There might be some argument to minclick trying to induce a spaz or if you think he'll fold everything to a jam. But this is a shove against anyone who isn't nitty. V doesn't sound nitty.
I've been trying to balance my advice in Banana threads by reading the hand histories in some but not others. I skipped the hand history here...
GRUNCH:
PRE - for crying out loud, Banana, raise bigger!!!!!!!!!! (Estimating one exclamation point for every time I've told you this, and I think I'm low.)
V is a maniac / whale who is throwing a party, and just opened to $30 when the pot is basically just two paperclips, a wad of chewing gum, and some pocket lint.
Make it $150. Hell, make it $180. He's got $2k in front of him, at 1/3. He's playing with monopoly money, as far as he's concerned. And he's swarthy??? Do you know what happens when you challenge a swarthy man's...erm...manhood? Hint: they don't back down.
If he folds, he had air and was just screwing around. If he has JJ+/ATs, he's never folding, and he might 4B you. I can feel my pants tightening just thinking about what size he may use.
FLOP - He raised out of the BB and called a 3B. He has a hand. He's not letting go of it to a single bet, almost regardless of size. He's likely to see flush draws hiding in every bush and around every corner. Bet pot.
TURN - Okay. Good check back. Chef's kiss.
RIVER - Oh, $hlt, we lose to K9ss and 98ss. Better just flat call.
No. Seriously. If you flat called, I will find you, rip off your arms, and beat you to death with them, then stuff your hands down the front of your pants and tell your family you died as you lived, protecting the nuts.
Raise. Just stick it all in. Anything less than $750 is criminal. Like, straight to jail, no eligibility for parole until you've been completely rehabilitated.
Turn check isn't bad I just wouldn't do it vs a whale. We aren't getting raised often either and it's hardly a disaster if raised.
If you flat called, I will find you, rip off your arms, and beat you to death with them, then stuff your hands down the front of your pants and tell your family you died as you lived, protecting the nuts.
I never imagined that a premeditated murder plot would make me laugh so hard!
Result:
Spoiler
I make it 800 and then ponder what I'm going to do if V shoves...luckily V then gives off a bunch of physical tells that he doesn't like it before calling. We're good. V mucks no reveal.
At a minimum, you deserve to wear an ankle monitor for a month.
Nice hand Banana. I like the way you played this one. Turn you can kind of go either way between betting and checking. River I said jam but I was thinking something like 800 could be better. You might get called much more often so that the average EV is higher the way you played it.
Why is checking the turn bad? If you bet and get raised it's a disaster. You don't really need any protection. Surely this is the perfect hand to protect your check back range?
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Basically what GreatWhiteFish (You continue to get value from hands like pair plus FD. You build the pot so you can stack him if he has any spade when the fourth spade rolls off.) and acescracked (Turn check isn't bad I just wouldn't do it vs a whale. We aren't getting raised often either and it's hardly a disaster if raised.) wrote.
flatting pre with AA vs a whale has to be the worst advice ive ever heard on this forum
the guy is trying to hand you his money and you are just giving it back to him. FFS.
Not sure how it isn't a disaster if we're check/raised on the turn? Unless both our bet and the raise is super small we won't have the odds to continue to chase our flush (plus our IO on a 4-to-a-flush suck against anything but Kxss). We just think we're good / have a couple Ace outs / counterfeiting two pair outs enough of the time on this runout?
GcluielessNLnoobG
