2/5 we cbetting vs tilted villain?

I’m clueless here as well.

Asians tend to be gambly but it’s hard to put him on a range from just one hand. Also, unless there is a physical tell I wouldn’t assume he is on tilt.

This flop smacks his range considering he only called the original bet and then once again called. Maybe this would be a good spot for a delayed C bet. I wouldn’t 3 barrel here. Maybe a small flop bet is good targeting his lower suited junk that missed.

I don’t know.

That is a tough one. I think delayed c-bet is good. The pot is so big if we bet small he's calling w/ most of his range or could raise w/ a draw and force us to fold, and if we bet big, we bloat the pot -- all vs. someone we know too little about.

Isn't our range badly capped with a check. Then the turn bet makes no sense for us to have a strong hand here?

You're still thinking about your hand, your range. You should be thinking about defining his range.

If you c-bet small, we should expect him to x/r his strongest hands, probably more than half the time. So a check-call caps him. If you check back, he may stab turn, but now he's uncapped, so we're basically guessing.

If we had a very strong hand, we could check back and then either raise when he stabs or make a delayed c-bet if he checks to us again.

He's naturally checked to to the PFR. Just make a standard c-bet for a small size. If he x/r's, we can just fold. Don't over-complicate things.

Though I like c-betting most of the time, I like the check here, because you gain info:
If he checks again or donks small, I would bet/raise as this is an under-bluffed line and you look very strong. If he bets pot(+) I’d get out of the way.

Mid-aged Asians come in variety, though most Asians in general have a lot of gamble in them. The young are usually very aggressive and the ones looking to bluff this old white guy. I honestly don’t run across any elderly Asians or maybe they look younger than they are.

Many Asians fall into the category of loose calling stations as they seem unbothered by pulling out more cash. If they catch cards on the runout, they can hit you with a suck out. Then, of course, there are some great players

It’s just generalizations like you can bluff an OMC. I can tell the good players (of any race) from the bad by their actions.

We don't gain info by checking IP. We gain info by checking OOP. When we check back, we're just guessing on the turn. When we bet, we have more info based on how he responds.

So you c-bet every hand when checked to?

flop xx
Turn 3♠ xx

River 4♠
V bets 250???
This looks like polarized spot?
44/TT/99/33? then bluffs??

Not necessarily. It's a baseline strat, basically a default setting we use as a starting point, when deciding if we want to deviate for some reason.

On the flop, we don't know if our hand has any SDV, or if it's a semi-bluff. If we check back, we're acting as if our hand has SDV and can be played as a bluff catcher.

But if we don't improve, and our opponent starts betting on the turn, we may not have enough SDV to call down across two streets. AK isn't that great a bluff-catcher. At most, it may only be good enough to bluff-catch on one street, but not two.

When we c-bet the flop for a small size, good things happen. Sometimes V just folds away their equity and we win with ace-high. Sometimes they call with worse ace-high, or just a draw, or they call with a hand that's better now but won't be if we improve.

If they x/r, we can start to narrow their range towards having strong hands and good draws. If they flat call, we can consider them to be more capped, with a wider range that has mostly weaker hands and worse draws.

We can't cap them by checking back. We can only cap them by c-betting and seeing their response.

We don't need to cap them if we flop a nutted hand, so in that scenario, we'd be more likely to check back.

Likewise, if we flop a decent draw to the nuts, but the board obviously favors our opponent's range, we should check back, with the assumption that we're behind and need to hit our draw, and V is very likely to x/r if we c-bet.

If we c-bet the flop and they flat, capping their range, then we base our turn action according to how the turn card interacts with V's capped range. If it's a draw-completing card, they're uncapped again. If it's a disconnected brick, they're still capped, and we can continue to play our hand as a semi-bluff with a modicum of SDV.

Conversely, if we're always just checking back with AK, and c-betting with value, we make it really easy for our opponents to play perfectly against us, and hurting our win rate. Our opponents can just start betting turn with ATC whenever we check back the flop.

So, to simplify, our default strat is to range-bet IP as the PFR. Sometimes we'll check back when we have the board crushed, sometimes check back with our draws that don't want to get x/r'd, and sometimes make a read-based adjustment based on a specific V's tendencies.

C-bet flop.

As played, when V checks again on the turn, make a delayed c-bet. We can't go too big, because we shouldn't have much if any 3x in our range, and if we had TT we wouldn't want V to fold. So we might c-bet 1/3 pot on turn.

As played, we're pretty face up. V might be betting for value with 1P+, or bluffing with AX, often AK trying to push us off a chop.

It's a pretty $hlt spot, since we only beat a bluff, and we're chopping with a lot of V's bluffs. So, we should probably fold.

It seems like you're just surrendering when you don't make a pair with AK. If you're going to play AK this way, don't 3B it pre, just flat call, so it'll cost you less when you fold.

If you're going to 3B pre, you have to play it the same way you would play TPTK+.

If we're concerned about bloating the pot post-flop with just ace-high, we can always c-bet the flop, check back turn, and bluff-catch the river. Our hand has some SDV against V's bricked draws and worse ace-high that will stab river for a smallish size after we check back turn.

I'd caution you against assuming too much about V based on him losing one hand. It seems like the truth may be the opposite of what you think.

He sat down with the table max, all big chips. That's generally a sign of someone who is a reg and not concerned about the impact one pot will have on his bankroll.

He lost $180 in that first hand. It's not that big a pot in a 2/5 game. I wouldn't assume he's tilted.

What do you think happened there, in that hand, when he 3B's pre, c-bets the Q-high flop, checks back a brick turn, and folds when his opponent stabs the K river?

It looks to me like he 3B pre with JJ/TT or AXs and decided to take his SDV on the turn, after his opponent called his c-bet, then made a disciplined fold on the river. That doesn't look like tilt to me. It looks like a guy protecting his stack.

Aren't you Asian? I somehow got that impression. How do you think middle aged Asian men play?

In my observation, they tend to be either nitty pre and face up post, or super loose-passive whales. The former always has it, and the latter tends to go broke holding on to something middling.

As for V's range, he opened and called our 3B from OOP. We can probably discount the likelihood of him having QQ+. On the flop, he's going to have some sets and 2P, some draws, some un-paired over-cards, some slivers of over-pairs, some under-pairs, and some total whiffs.

If he's the nitty pre type, he'll probably float wide when we c-bet the flop and start over-folding if we barrel turn. He'll also aggressively x/r with 2P+.

If he's the loose passive type, he might have limp-called pre with most of his range, and 4B with QQ+/AK. His calling range is probably a little wider getting to the flop, so he should be folding more hands to our c-bet right away. We can expect him to x/r with his thick but vulnerable value, and chase all his draws.

Which type is he? You're the one at the table with him. You tell us. If you don't know because he just sat down and only played 2 hands, can you make an educated guess based on him buying in for the max, with all big chips, and any other info, such as how he stacks his chips, and his actions?

If I had to guess, he sounds like the nitty pre, face up post type. He's probably not checking to us twice and betting huge on the river with many hands we beat.

V doube-flatted pre. That's generally an indication of a condensed yet decently strong range, much like the range that cold calls a 3B.

We're the 3B'er. We were repping strength pre. Does it seem like he might give us some rope post flop by checking to us twice? And if we don't bite by betting, does it seem likely he might go huge on the river, hoping we will bluff catch?

I think that makes a lot of sense. But we can't be sure he isn't bluffing when we check back twice, which is why we want to c-bet the flop. We gave him so much rope by checking back twice that he could easily be bluffing here, but do we want to bluff catch when he almost pots it?

I don't want to.

I'm usually nitty, sometimes aggro.

In general when I see an asian guy, I assume they're aggro or gambly/splashy, possibly nitty if older. The younger the more aggro.

The way I saw villain was splashy, after losing the previous hand then calling a big 3bet oop just to pray to hit something big.

After seeing this wet coordinated flop and assuming villain is the splashy side, we either get x/r or x/c a high percentage of times.
I think villain even x/r J7o, yes I'd assume J7o type hand is in his calling range. lol

Of course this is just my random guess. They come in different varieties. I've been to an all asian home game, they play differently. But in general has random spaz/aggro factor. Even the nits were making random aggro plays from time to time. I guess I fit this type as well.

Range: 3bet pot - he has strong hands
You have a strong one too. You’re not really able to narrow a range at this point other than villain reads.

Narrowing the range begins on the flop
You bet the flop, you get info
You check the flop, you get info

I just disagree with doc on this one, although it’s not terrible advice. After checking flop, when villain checks turn, I’m bet-folding the turn.

Again, it would help to know if villain sees you as aggro or has he been watching a tight aggressive you. Your line is very passive this time.

Some players understand that checking the flop, then betting the turn is an underbluffed line and you will get folds. A lot of players are shocked they flopped a set, freeze up and check, then on the turn they bet for value.

Again, I don’t check flop often, but this is a good spot. I think you take it down on the turn.
Delayed c-bets are a thing. If you see this line, I would expect strength

As played, just let it go. All you have is ace high
Either he has pocket fours and hope you raise or he got tired of all the checking.

I do think you make a mistake thinking he would check the turn with TT, 99, or 33. I don’t think any of those are in his range or he would have bet.

Does this guy think he can bluff you?
I would try to get him to show, so you can understand him better.

How you play is less important than how they play. Our table image is very often a figment of our imagination, when our opponents aren't paying that much attention to what we're doing. If we're not doing anything to make an impression on our opponents, it's likely they haven't even noticed us.

I probably need to be more aware of what people mean when they say "middle aged". I'm 54. What I imagine when someone says "middle aged" is my age or older, but it could be someone 20 years younger than me.

If your read is that this guy is splashy, okay, then that's your read. I'd just caution you against assuming he's tilted because he lost $180 in one hand at 2/5.

I'd also be leery of assuming too much about V or his range based on the fact that he double-flatted a big 3B from OOP. I wouldn't necessarily assume he's tilted and calling too wide. It's unusual for anyone to double-flat in this configuration pre, but I'd think it's generally going to be a fairly condensed range.

Put yourself in his position. If you over-called an EP open from an aggro-fish, and the BTN put in a just-over 6x 3B, what sort of hands would you continue with, when action folds back around to you?

AKo? AQs? KQs? AJs? KJs? TT? 99? T9s? Any or all AXs below AQ? All PP's?

If you're not sure about how V plays, you can probably still remove some hands from his range when he double-flats pre. He probably doesn't have JJ+. Probably not 22-55. Probably not KTo or QTo, or J9o, or J8s.

Other than ATs, TT, 99, T9, QJ, 87, and XXcc combos, he's unlikely to have connected with this board in a big way. A lot of his range just completely missed on the flop, and is likely to fold to a 1/3 pot c-bet.

If he check-calls, we can probably narrow his range down to hands that connected with the board in some way, or some SDV, like 66-88. If he doesn't check-raise, we can probably remove all the 2P and sets from his range. We can discount the likelihood of him having AT. His range gets clustered around 1P and some draws.

The 3s turn is mostly just a brick. He's likely to get more elastic with his draws, and more inelastic with his 1P hands. We can size up and barrel, to charge his draws, and put pressure on his SDV. We can make all those hands fold when the river bricks.

If you think he's special enough to double-flat pre, and x/r the flop with J7o, okay. Does he also x/r 2P+, or is he check-calling 2P+ and only check-raising with his gut-shots? What does he do on the turn after x/r'ing, when you call? Does he barrel, even with J7o? What does he do with 2P+?

I would bet he often slows down on the turn with his bluffs, and bombs it with 2P+. If he barrels with his bluffs, I'd bet he uses a smaller size.

If we check back on the flop, what does he do with his GSSD's on the turn? I'd bet he starts bluffing with them, at a high frequency. I'd also bet he has a sizing tell, where he uses a smaller size with his bluffs and a larger size with 2P+.

It just seems to me that you're not putting all the pieces together. You're basically saying this guy is tilted so he can have ATC, and he can x/r with low-equity draws, so instead of giving him a chance to bluff the flop or turn, we're going to just check back twice, giving him a chance to bluff the river.

Just c-bet small. If he wants to x/r, let him. We'll have hands with enough equity to continue, and hands that have to fold. He won't x/r with his entire range, will he? Why are we worried about him x/r'ing as a bluff, if we're c-betting as a bluff?

C-bet small. See how he responds. Then we'll decide what we want to do next. Let's not worry about this guy x/r'ing us with a GSSD before we've even bet.

If we're only c-betting hands that can continue facing an x/r, we're way under c-betting, and letting him realize more of his equity.

Yeah what value hands check back flop then bet a blank turn? Even your weaker value hands benefit from protection on this wet board, so they're more likely to want to bet the flop if they're strong enough to put in money at all with an SPR under 2.5.

If you're going to cbet I think it's better to do it on the flop. When you check back flop and start betting turn people put you on AK and call you down a lot with any pair. If you do bet flop I'm jamming turn a lot as a bluff.

Checking back flop is fine too, but in that case I would mostly be checking it down unless board-changing cards hit.

As played I fold against the big river bet.