Adding the minclick torpedo to my arsenal

Meh. I kind of like calling to see a river. This is a pretty good card for us, and I don't want to get blown off our hand. I'd almost rather check/raise the flop given how wide he could be (I assume -- you didn't give us any info about the hands he is raising pre?) and the image we must have.

I wouldn't straddle but at least you seem to have a reason to (although it's likely not having nearly as much affect on "keeping the vibe going" as you think it is in 99% of the situations, imo).

Preflop is very meh, imo. We're OOP in a bloated pot with a hand that makes a crapload of second best hands (which is very dangerous in NL multiway). And from a reciprocality point of view, we're doing something that every other losing idiot at the table is doing; not to say that we won't be in some cases, but the more we don't find deviations from the others the more we're just the same as them.

I mean, I guess for this price closing the action and second pair and a couple of backdoors we can't fold the flop (in spite of the strength he is showing betting into 3 opponents)?

I wouldn't hate the turn play against a tighter ABC player who is capable of putting us on AQ and hero folding AK face up (i.e. someone like me). Against anyone labelled "a drooler" I think this is probably lighting money on fire. But we certainly do set things up for a difficult-to-deal-with PSB+ (for an uncomfortable amount of real $$$$) jam on the river.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Can you spend a little time in your OPs explaining why ur doing what ur doing?

Hate everything about it. Reads like we're getting exactly 0 folds about 98% of the time. Basically what we just did is make seeing the river $90(unless he raises) more expensive for us for absolutely no reason.

Hate it. You think a player with station-y tendencies is going to fold an ace for that sizing? You're reopening the action and it would be a disaster if he jams. What are you trying to accomplish with the minraise?

The queen isn't even a card that makes sense for you to represent. In this situation for the most part if he ever folds, it was likely a random bluff and we were ahead.

Next time you feel like straddling UTG, just take a five dollar bill out of your pocket, tear it up and throw it on the ground instead.

Every single time it was your turn to act, you should have folded.

LOL

Where have I heard this before...?

FWIW, I straddle UTG only if the entire table is doing it.

My reasoning (for those that want it):

-On such a dry A-blank-blank texture a 20$ cbet from this guy IP represents squadoosh. He's never betting an A this small unless its a trash A. He's opening wide IP pre. V's best hand here is a weak A. (OTF reading).

-Turn we pick up equity, we still have a pair, it's unlikely V worse when he bets 4-ways OTF but he has some random hands like 99-AA that think they're entitled to the pot.

-Turn bet is large, seems weird, he suddenly has a real hand. This make me think he can have some traps and that my OTF read of weakness isn't so correct, he could have AA that takes this line. Or other sets like QQ.

-What does his range do to the various options OTT? If I check and river ♥ I don't get paid that much, I have to lead small to get called, most of V's range is 1-pair so my river lead would have to be small. If I brick river I feel I'm never good. Can I fold? Not really. Can I raise? Ya you can raise - what happens when you raise? His sets 3-bet for large sizing while his non-top pair like 7X 88-KK probably folds. Sometimes he drilled QQ here. Either way I can easily fold to the 3-bet and then I only invest another 90 in the raise. If he calls the minclick it's likely a sticky A.

Yeah, pot odds are a thing

Sounds like a direct contradiction to your reads. No idea why we can't just call vs a player who sounds capable of bluffing but not of folding?

You're almost perfectly folding out all the hands you're ahead of and getting called by all the hands you're behind. It's very unlikely he is double barreling an ace high flop with 88-KK.

Basically he's almost always got an ace (or even a set occasionally). Occasionally he'll have air that is bluffing. Your bluff raise just folds out air and gets called by everything that has you crushed (mostly Ax). Occasionally he jams over the top and forces you to fold a ton of equity.

You've got the implied odds to call the turn bet. Occasionally he will also check back river and you will win unimproved. Minraising accomplishes nothing.

Why would you like making raises with no fold equity that open the door to getting smashed off our equity?

By the way Banana, chatgpt is probably now giving better poker advice than us:

"You’re taking a really interesting line here, Banana — the min‑click on the turn with a medium-strength hand + big equity is one of those spots where the EV hinges almost entirely on Villain type and range composition. Let’s break down what’s actually happening in the tree and whether this click is printing, torching, or somewhere in between.

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🧩 What your hand actually is on the turn
5♥7♥ on A♥ 7♠ 3♦ Q♥
You have:
- Second pair
- A live 5
- A live 7
- A flush draw
- A backdoor straight draw (6)

This is a very robust semi-bluff candidate. Against a CO open + c-bet + barrel range, you’re rarely ahead right now, but you have a ton of equity and excellent playability.

---

🎯 What your click accomplishes (and fails to accomplish)

👍 What the click is good at
- Folds out his air / low equity barrels (KJ no heart, JT no heart, 98 no heart, etc.)
- Denies equity to hands that beat you now but shouldn’t realize (e.g., 88–TT with no heart)
- Builds a pot for when you bink a heart
- Sets up a river shove with a polarized story (you rep sets, AQ, A7s, Q7s, 33, A3s, and nut hearts)

👎 What the click is bad at
- You never fold out Ax
CO vs UTG straddle, he’s opening a lot of Ax and c-betting all of them. He’s calling all of them for 90 more.

- You never fold out AQ, sets, or big hearts
These hands love your click.

- You give him a great price with hands that dominate your equity
K♥Jx, K♥Tx, J♥Tx, etc. all continue and crush your draw.

- You polarize yourself without actually being polarized
Your line says “I have a monster or a bluff, ” but your hand is actually a medium-strength draw that prefers realizing equity.

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🧠 Solver intuition (no solver needed)
In multiway pots, solvers:
- Rarely raise small on the turn
- Prefer calling with medium-strength draws
- Raise polarized: nut flush draws, sets, two pair, and some low-equity bluffs

Your hand is too good to bluff and not good enough to value raise.

The solver line is almost always:

Turn: Check → Call

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🧨 What happens when you click in practice?
Against an effective, thinking reg with $800:
- He continues with all Ax, AQ, sets, and all heart draws.
- He folds only the hands you already beat or have crushed.
- He may 3-bet shove some nut heart draws, putting you in a miserable spot.

Your click becomes:
- Bad when called
- Bad when raised
- Good only when he folds the bottom of his range

That’s not a great tradeoff.

---

🧭 Best line for EV

Turn: Check → Call
You keep:
- All his bluffs
- All his dominated draws
- All his worse 7x
- All his weak Ax that you can bluff later

And you realize your 15–18 outs cleanly.

---

🧱 If you do want to raise, the sizing should be bigger
A real raise (to 300–350) actually:
- Folds out more Ax
- Puts pressure on AQ
- Forces dominated hearts to make a mistake
- Sets up a river shove cleanly

The min-click is the worst of both worlds: too small to fold out value, too big to keep in trash.

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🏁 Final take
The click is not good here.
You fold out the hands you want to keep, and keep the hands you want to fold.

Call turn and play rivers with a very strong, disguised draw.

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What did V’s timing and body language look like on the turn? That often tells us whether he’s weighted toward Ax or heart draws, which changes how aggressively we want to attack the river."

Ehhh?????

😂 Still right more often than the average post.

Chatgpts a moron lol

You're just mad he called your line bad in such a polite way. You missed out on your chance to river a backdoor straight draw and make the straight on the ocean.

Go home, Banana. You're drunk.

Fold pre twice banana. I mean fine go ahead, I do enjoy your hand histories but torching all those chips just to entertain some random Australian seems like a suboptimal approach to poker.

I don't use the minclick so go ahead and ignore me but if I was going to minclick "a drooler" who "calls too much" then I would do so in order to build a pot with the turbonuts.

Can we get the conclusion? I'm curious.

Problem is he bet 20 4 way OTF and bet 3/4 pot OTT. Granted the 20 on the flop is suspect but would expect him to have a lot of Ax+ so not really a good spot to x/r. Furthermore we have a 7 and good equity - it's not like he's playing TT like this or 99 so the "semi bluff" is sort of pointless.

@Banana - ^he's not wrong.

On disconnected ace-high boards like this one, the hands you want to c-bet or raise as a bluff are the combos that block our opponent's really strong value hands.

So, having a 7 here is good, because it blocks combos of 77. It would be better if it wasn't the 7h, when the Ah is on board, because we don't block any A7s combos. We'd rather have 7Xdd than 7Xhh here.

A better combo would be something like K7dd, blocking 77, A7s, and some AK combos. Even K3ss could be a potential candidate to x/r as a bluff on the flop.

When we pick up the BDFD on the Qh, our raise isn't very credible. V could have AA, QQ, or AQ. We might have AQo at best. This might work as a delayed x/r if we actually had 77 or 33, because there are so many draws we could have here. But that's precisely why this bluff doesn't work - because of all the draws we could have here.

I wouldn't necessarily discount the implied odds of making our flush on the river. First off, it would be a 7-high flush. It's not impossible for V to have a higher flush draw. But assuming V is just betting for value here, he isn't necessarily going to give us credit for having a BDFD when we call the flop.

Look at it from his perspective - we can't have AXhh or QXhh. How many really good flush draw combos can we have that don't 3B pre, but flat call the flop? Are we really getting past the flop with a lot of KXhh or JXhh combos?

We can also river trips or a sneaky 2P on a 7 or 5. V might shut down and check back with some of his thin value, or give up on some of his bluffs. There just aren't many good reasons to x/r the turn.

The min-click sizing is also problematic. We basically rep nothing. Name a value combo that would take this line of flatting from the straddle pre, and min-click x/r'ing the turn. Maybe AQo? What else? Does AQo even play this way? Would you do this with 54hh (DGSSD that picked up the BDFD)?

If we did have AQo, and thought V would spaz-3B, this would be an awesome line. With 75hh, not so much.