Second Nuts (Set of Aces) v. Whale’s Delayed Check-Raise
Live 5-10-20
I haven’t played with Villain long. But he seems like a big whale.
He’s playing every hand, raising or 3-betting half of them. He’s aggressive. And he’s destroying the table.
MP folds
HJ [Hero] raises to 40 with Ad Ah Ks Js (3k stack)
CO fish calls 40 (2k)
BTN folds
SB folds
BB folds
Straddle [Villain] calls 40 (4k)
Pot 135
Flop Ac 5d 2c
Villain checks
Hero bets 75
BTN folds
Villain calls 75
Pot 285
Turn Kd
Villain checks
Hero bets 275
Villain raises to 800
Hero calls 800
Pot 1885
River 9s
Villain bets 1125
Hero?
20 Replies
call? river is a blank.
Don’t love it but have to call.
Why open 2x only
I min open in position against the blinds and straddles so I can play a wider range. If someone limps, or if I’m out of position against the straddle, my range is a little tighter and I go full pot.
It seems sinful to fold the river against a whale. But in live play, people ALWAYS put the PFR on AAxx. It’s insane to try to push someone off of a set of aces here.
It’s not uncommon to get into a spot like this. I want to believe an action whale can have a big draw on the turn. But unless they’re ONLY paying attention to their own hands and not anyone else’s, they always show me the nuts.
Really gross spot. He knows you have AA and that you rarely have a straight. He could easily have a straight, but he could easily be bluffing. Sorry, but it's just a table read. If you think he has it, fold is fine.
If you don't want to put yourself in this situation, as gross as it seems, check the turn vs players like this and call his river bet.
He knows you have aces cuz you opened in the HJ?
This seems nonsensical.
You wouldn’t play a hand like AK this way or A5 with a redraw?
What I would ask myself is, can he be betting worse for value? AK? 22? 55?
If that answer is never no, then fold
If that answer is yes, then call.
The real issue here is you block KK and Ad which blocks a lot of his draws and thick value. U wanna see a hand like AK or A5 with the Ad draw or KK with Kd flush draws. Given your hand properties and the Kd on the board he can’t have any of that and you unblock the straight.
I criminally overfold in live poker. My hand screams fold but if I think he’s betting worse for value I’ll throw the call in early in my session to see if he’s playing nonsense that has 34 in it.
Also stop min raising. It’s not a good strategy in PLO
I'm pretty sure if bigoilboomer had a straight, he'd shove the turn with the diamond draw out there and a bigger straight draw possible? Versus this guy, I would. Or would you just call hoping for a "clean" river?
FWIW, I don't like min-raises, either.
He knows you have aces cuz you opened in the HJThis seems nonsensical.You wouldn't play a hand like AK this way or A5 with a redrawWhat I would ask myself is, can he be betting worse for value AK 22 55If that answer is never no, then foldIf that answer is yes, then call. The real issue here is you block KK and Ad which blocks a lot of his draws and thick value. U wanna see a ha
I highly doubt he's value betting worse. Everyone live always puts the PFR on AAxx.
I really wanted to fold the second nuts on the river because my hand is so face up. But he's been so aggressive, and the turn put a ton of extra draws out there.
I like to look at the board texture, but also the mind texture. One layer that doesn’t show up in the HH is what was happening in your head. You said, “he’s destroying the table.” Did that create any pressure to be the one to finally catch him? On the river, were you calm and analytical, or did you feel urgency, frustration, or entitlement after flopping top set?
I like to look at the board texture, but also the mind texture. One layer that doesn't show up in the HH is what was happening in your head. You said, "he's destroying the table." Did that create any pressure to be the one to finally catch him On the river, were you calm and analytical, or did you feel urgency, frustration, or entitlement after flopping top set
There was frustration when he check-raised, yes. But I was still aware that he could very easily have the nut straight. If my hand was any worse (AKKx), I'd probably find a fold.
I like to look at the board texture, but also the mind texture. One layer that doesn't show up in the HH is what was happening in your head. You said, "he's destroying the table." Did that create any pressure to be the one to finally catch him On the river, were you calm and analytical, or did you feel urgency, frustration, or entitlement after flopping top set
There was frustra
Sounds like you passed the composure test. You can feel frustration and still keep your thinking brain online. That’s the performance skill a lot of people miss. They either feel nothing and play robotic, or feel something and get dragged by it.
Maybe you're using the word "whale" too loosely. People I consider whales flop sets and don't care what the other person's hand is, they just start shoveling in money bc they have a set
If he can't be doing this and you think he never has a draw on the turn(things actual whales do) then it's a pretty trivial fold on the river. He has every combo of the straight possible in the straddle vs a min raise
Maybe you're using the word "whale" too loosely. People I consider whales flop sets and don't care what the other person's hand is, they just start shoveling in money bc they have a setIf he can't be doing this and you think he never has a draw on the turn(things actual whales do) then it's a pretty trivial fold on the river. He has every combo of the straight possible in the
Only been playing with him for an hour. Hard to know EXACTLY what he would do with different hands. He's just been extremely active and aggressive for an hour.
Well you're getting a decent price on the river to not fold but you certainly let him in pf with all kinds of trash hands that have 43 in it
Actually you bring up a good point. If he pots the river, do we fold?
Because then he can just pot it when he doesn't have it. And he can bet one-half to two-thirds with the nut straight when the board texture doesn't change on the river. I'm guilty of using these sizes when I do/don't have it too.
An hour is not very long. Have you actually seen him bluff? Is he getting caught at all? Is he aggro every hand?
And, yes, I would criticize a NLHE player for raising to $40 in a 5/10/20 game. To be honest, I can't believe the BTN and even the SB and BB folded for $40 😉 It's even worse since the straddle is an an aggro "whale." You might as well limp.
Are we gonna criticize ALL the NL players for opening 2-2.5x now instead of 3.5x (full pot) and letting the big blind see a flop with 72?
PLO is an equity based game. There are tons of spots that come up every session where you know you're beat but you have to get the money in based on your equity and can't fold. NL has those but they are much much more infrequent. Which means you can actually bluff more postflop and the game is more of a psychological battle than an equity battle the way PLO is
Also I didn't criticize you, I simply pointed out what you did and what hands it allows him in with which is literally every single combo of 43xx in the deck if he's a whale
Granted, there are players who are calling a pot size bet pre w/ any four cards, too, but they don't feel quite so good about it 😉
