USA Goes to War Against Iran
Time for a dedicated thread to the war.
How long will it last and what will be the probable outcome?
Most of the world sitting on the sidelines are being economically hurt by this much more than the US, specifically CCP China and Europe. And at some point people will realize that as long as the IRGC exists, this (or more likely something much worse) will happen again. The IRGC are not rational actors. The are apocalyptic endtime religious extremists. A lot of Islamists on
Sure, you do not want the IRGC to have nuclear weapons, nor do I.
However, we are debating an actual situation, which requires more than exchanging platitudes from social media.
1. Will this war stop the IRGC from being able to advance a nuclear weapons program?
2. If yes, how?
And no, the rest of the world is not "content", nor is your own country for that matter. By observable evidence, what this war has achieved so far is to remove the old Iranian regime with a worse one, which is even more fanatical and unhinged. And the details about how things are supposed to progress from here are not only hazy, I strongly suspect the people in charge have no idea. This is the situation you are asking for support for.
Phrases about the plights of Iranian woman and IRGC extremists are hollow when there is no clear path towards actually resolving any of those issues. Maybe if you spent a few years actually building something on the ground that could make a difference inside Iran, and built a stable coalition - we could have a scenario worth discussing. But we do not have that.
If this trajectory does not change, you might very well end up with an Iran more hellbent and resolute on attaining nuclear weapons than before and a regime that will be even less hesitant about oppressing their populace.
That falls well within the realm of rationale behavior.
Some day actually take 10 minutes to study the ideology of the regime, and its actions toward said ideology. It is literally end of the world apocalyptic end time ****.
At some point when someone repeatedly tells and shows you exactly who they are, you should probably believe them.
Making up lies to invade and bomb a country falls well within the realm of rationale behavior?
Alright then.
No regime change without ground troops, anywhere, ever.
That falls well within the realm of rationale behavior.
Some day actually take 10 minutes to study the ideology of the regime, and its actions toward said ideology. It is literally end of the world apocalyptic end time ****.
At some point when someone repeatedly tells and shows you exactly who they are, you should probably believe them.
Our ideology is to wipe out other ideologies. Well really to wipe out anyone that isn't us. We started with the native Americans. We have brief periods of not doing it, but we have a long history of starting wars with no legitimate reason other than we just don't like whoever it is we are attacking. Vietnam went real well, don't you think? Oh, and Afghanistan. Iraq? No other country has caused more global turmoil in my lifetime than the good ole usa.
Our ideology is to wipe out other ideologies. Well really to wipe out anyone that isn't us. We started with the native Americans. We have brief periods of not doing it, but we have a long history of starting wars with no legitimate reason other than we just don't like whoever it is we are attacking. Vietnam went real well, don't you think? Oh, and Afghanistan. Iraq? No other
This is just postmodernist moral relativism nonsense.
Begin self critical is fine. But if you are at the point you are “both siding” to justify the actions of Islamic republic of Iran, than I would say you have lost the plot entirely.
This is just postmodernist moral relativism nonsense.
Begin self critical is fine. But if you are at the point you are “both siding” to justify the actions of Islamic republic of Iran, than I would say you have lost the plot entirely.
Yet none of it is wrong. He's stated facts you choose to ignore because there's no realm where you can deny any of them.
But if you are at the point you are “both siding” to justify the actions of Islamic republic of Iran, than I would say you have lost the plot entirely
Nobody did this. He just highlighted the bloody history that is the US and apparently you still haven't learned your lesson after all the chaos you have caused in the middle east.
Nobody here is justifying the actions of Iran.
Nobody here is justifying the actions of Iran.
I am. and I hope they hit these genocidal maniacs even harder.
Death to the USA
During the JCPOA Iran destroyed or destabilized much of the Arab world through proxies, killed or maimed thousands of US soldiers in Iraq, built giant arsenals of missiles to terrorize the world, and violated most of the nuclear terms they agreed to.
The JCPOA was an unmitigated disaster.
Uh when the JCPOA was codified, ISIS (which is not an Iran proxy) was the main antagonist throughout the region destabilizing countries.
Also where is this source on them killing or maiming thousands of soldiers since the JCPOA, which was an agreement in 2015 that the US withdrew from in 2018?
And the giant arsenal of missiles was all being produced during that 3 year period that it was active? That seems pretty crazy considering they were active before and after. Are you saying it allowed them to just stockpile missiles? Any source on that which would also affirm that counterfactually it wouldn’t have happened anyway?
I dunno man a lot of this sounds made-up and like you have no idea what you’re saying but saying it quite confidently.
We fight from within.
Already, if you say such things on large social media platforms you will be reported to the government.
Everything you fear has already happened.
Most of the world sitting on the sidelines are being economically hurt by this much more than the US, specifically CCP China and Europe. And at some point people will realize that as long as the IRGC exists, this (or more likely something much worse) will happen again. The IRGC are not rational actors. The are apocalyptic endtime religious extremists. A lot of Islamists on
Sure, you do not want the IRGC to have nuclear weapons, nor do I. However, we are debating an actual situation, which requires more than exchanging platitudes from social media. 1. Will this war stop the IRGC from being able to advance a nuclear weapons program? 2. If yes, how?And no, the rest of the world is not "content", nor is your own country for that matter. By observable
Kelhus,
t_d is exactly correct. If you want support from Western Europe for a war in the Middle East, you more or less have to follow the blueprint that George H.W. Bush followed in the runup to the first Gulf War. You have to spend a considerable amount of time doing the spade work to build consensus (which is easier if you haven't been pissing all over NATO, imposing dumb tariffs, etc.). You need to have a compelling case that urgent action is necessary. You need to articulate what your objectives are, why you believe those objectives are achieveable, and explain why achieving those objectives is in the interests of the entire coalition. You don't get a wild hair up your ass one morning and start dropping bombs like a half-cocked urban cowboy on a meth bender.
The underpants gnome rubric was quite overused in this forum back in the day, but it certainly appears applicable here. I know what Step 1 was: kill Khameini and those closest to him. And I know that Step 3 was to have a government in Iran that had no designs on nuclear weapons and no real opposition to the advancement of U.S. interests. But I'll be damned if I know what Step 2 is, and I'm not at all convinced that Trump and the collection of dumb ****s that have his ear have any idea either.
Step 2 is collapse but it is yet to be seen whose.
At least half the posters in this thread can't see past the oppressor / oppressed narratives and have zero idea what they are talking about geopolitically.
Too much moral relativism and a lack of any honest moral hierarchy when evaluating regimes, ideologies, and state actors. It's classic moralizing against the reaction while giving a free pass to the aggression that triggered it.
It's classic moralizing against the reaction while giving a free pass to the aggression that triggered it.
America bombed them out of the blue during negotiations.
We murdered their unarmed sailors on the way home from a naval exercise that we participated in.
Then we murdered their school children with a tomahawk missile and lied about it.
US and Israel are war criminals and both regimes should be led to the gallows.
America bombed them out of the blue during negotiations.
We murdered their unarmed sailors on the way home from a naval exercise that we participated in.
Then we murdered their school children with a tomahawk missile and lied about it.
US and Israel are war criminals and both regimes should be led to the gallows.
Exactly... ty.
Iran, #1 sponsor of state terrorism in the region... free pass.
Hey, at least the US got their hostages back in 79' though.
I don't condone war. And I especially am not in favor of how this administration went about this. They are intellectually lazy, and will inevitably fk up many things. But you're pretending like Iran is completely innocent. Maybe ask the women in burqas how they feel about that before becoming a justice warrior for the Iranian regime?
Iran, #1 sponsor of state terrorism in the region... free pass.
...
But you're pretending like Iran is completely innocent.
Terrorism is usually a word for violence you don't like and is rendered completely meaningless when you ignore American terroristic actions.
I gave many specific US examples that occurred in the last week. Iran in return has been randomly bombing desalination plants and attacking corporate hard drives etc.
Never defended it. Never pretended anything whatsoever about Iran. I just acknowledged that the US are the bad guys here.
Exactly... ty.Iran, #1 sponsor of state terrorism in the region... free pass.Hey, at least the US got their hostages back in 79' though.I don't condone war. And I especially am not in favor of how this administration went about this. They are intellectually lazy, and will inevitably fk up many things. But you're pretending like Iran is completely innocent. Maybe ask the women i
As previous US administrations have done before, again and again. If only a lesson could be learned from all those failed wars.
Too much moral relativism and a lack of any honest moral hierarchy when evaluating regimes, ideologies, and state actors.
I think people are plenty honest when saying that Israel and the US are war criminals ESPECIALLY in the context of the middle east.
This war will be no different but we in the West get to continue to pretend we're the good guys. Just like you're doing right now.
Exactly... ty.Iran, #1 sponsor of state terrorism in the region... free pass.Hey, at least the US got their hostages back in 79' though.I don't condone war. And I especially am not in favor of how this administration went about this. They are intellectually lazy, and will inevitably fk up many things. But you're pretending like Iran is completely innocent.
Do you believe that the feelings of the women in burqas or the government's treatment of women generally in burqas were a big factor in this administration's decision to go to war? I don't.
How the Iranian government treats women is important, of course, but it is basically irrelevant when deciding whether to go to war unless there is a realistic chance that the war will leave women in Iran in a better position.
I'm pretty sure kelhus believes we are the master race and culture and the ultimate final solution is to eliminate everyone that isn't us.
Terrorism is usually a word for violence you don't like and is rendered completely meaningless when you ignore American terroristic actions.I gave many specific US examples that occurred in the last week. Iran in return has been randomly bombing desalination plants and attacking corporate hard drives etc. Never defended it. Never pretended anything whatsoever about Iran. I jus
Right.
So why did 20k-30k Iranians recently gave their lives in protest? What were they protesting about? Not getting a new starbucks?
How bad do you think it has to be, in order for that to happen? And why do think that doesn't happen in America? <--- therein lies a key clue to what you're not considering about this war.
Right.
So why did 20k-30k Iranians recently gave their lives in protest? What were they protesting about? Not getting a new starbucks?
How bad do you think it has to be, in order for that to happen? And why do think that doesn't happen in America? <--- therein lies a key clue to what you're not considering about this war.
They have massive economic issues my friend I don't know why you think bombing them would help?
