Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
A 1949 Israeli novel, based on a real event, candidly described the Nakba -- back when it wasn't denied.
they were to search the villages, round up the inhabitants, and expel them all to Gaza, after which the houses were to be “burned and razed.” The orders were carried out five days later. The residents of Khirbet al-Khisas have remained stateless and exiled ever since.
In their first years of statehood, Israelis were well aware of the ethnic cleansing they had perpetrated, the swift reduction of a Palestinian majority into a minority. They had seen the columns of haggard refugees. They had looted the furniture and valuables left behind. They had helped new immigrants move into emptied Palestinian homes. They had watched bulldozers destroy ancient villages, and they had planted trees that covered up the crime. Their own army intelligence assessment of June 1948 had determined that most refugees were driven out by “Jewish military action” and not by calls from Arab leaders to flee, as later Israeli propaganda asserted.
Annie's a crank. I wouldn't take too much notice. Five used to employ a fair few cranks, like Annie and her former squeeze David Shayler (remember him?), who was last heard of going by 'Delores Kane', in blonde wig, leopard-print mini-skirt, stilettos and prosthetic breasts, living in an upmarket squat and claiming to be the incarnation of Christ on a mission to overthrow the 'Zionist empire'.
What Annie means is that there was an MI5 internal document circulated at the time, raising the hypothetical possibility that the Israelis bombed their own embassy -- but it was always unlikely and it turned out they didn't.
A 1949 Israeli novel, based on a real event, candidly described the Nakba -- back when it wasn't denied.
The establishment of Israel is a very ugly story, which Zionists ask you to ignore because 'Palestinians don't count' (or, as they now like to contend, in a claim sometimes made ITT, 'Palestinians never existed') -- that mindset probably explaining why it is such a very ugly story.
And 850k Jews were expelled from the Arab world with many of them ending up in Israel. Imagine the response from Arab nations if Jews started demanding right of return lol.
How about Israels war against Christians in Lebanon? And in before the propaganda start whining “not a peep outta them about Africa!” Or “why don’t they talk about what’s happening to Christians in Muslim countries?”
Again as even Jewish journalist reported Israels war in Gaza and it’s surrounding neighboring countries like Lebanon has caused the worst civilian death ratio in recent modern warfare. That is the response to this stupid Zionist propaganda point about “not a peep outta”
Deuces, we both know you don't give two shits about Epstein. Epstein is dead and if everyone associated with controlling the kidneys and the Ukrainian women were punished it wouldn't be mission accomplished for you. It's just more moral cover like 911.
I don't know what you are getting at saying I don't give two shits about Epstein. Even if I had no morals and was a totally self interested being, I would still give two shits about Epstein. If you are trying to say that I don't care about kids getting raped, that I don't care that this guy had a dentist take out children's teeth so they couldn't bit when they were raped, if you really think that they don't talk to me.
These parasites, as you are fully aware of, are the majority of Americans. The Jews and the anti-communists aren't a group that can be dealt with by targeting the Epstein class lol. This of course you know perfectly well.
You are kinda slow on the uptake. I've never said anything about the Jews other than that they are the most prominent anti Zionists. I also happen to vibe with Jewish people. It's the conservatives I don't like. But Jews are the most progressive "ethnic" group in the country and if it weren't for the Jewish people I listen to on politics I would literally have no one because every non Jewish prognosticator and commentator is dogshit. Maybe there are a few exceptions, but most non Jewish political commentators are unexceptional or suck. I don't think this is genetic supremacy. It's just a function of being persecuted and being forced to be competent and be right in order to survive.
For the 5th time, when I say anti-communists I don't mean people who have been passively brain washed into thinking communism is a bad idea. I'm talking about people who have an innate hatred for the ideas of community and mutual aid. Most of you don't know who I am talking about but this is a well defined, small set of, I guess you might call them, people.
The Epstein class is running the world, and running it on behalf of a small group of elites. The parasites are not a majority, not at all. Even most Trump voters are, fundamentally, decent people. They just don't know what they are dealing with in the Epstein class. Neither, apparently, do you. But stay tuned. You're going to learn.
I've never said anything about the Jews other than that they are the most prominent anti Zionists. I also happen to vibe with Jewish people. It's the conservatives I don't like. But Jews are the most progressive "ethnic" group in the country and if it weren't for the Jewish people I listen to on politics I would literally have no one because every non Jewish prognosticator and commentator is dogshit
cmon man.
The establishment of Israel is a very ugly story, which Zionists ask you to ignore because 'Palestinians don't count' (or, as they now like to contend, in a claim sometimes made ITT, 'Palestinians never existed') -- that mindset probably explaining why it is such a very ugly story.
Most of the first half of 20th century history was very ugly. And Jews were the recipients of much more ugliness and they dished out. The difference is we obsessively hyper focus on this little aspect of history, and ignore most of the rest, for geopolitical reasons.
As I said, for most of the ugliness some sort of resolution happened, and the world moved on. The Arabs/Palestinians, and their Western enablers, made sure this conflict would never come to a resolution, and the world would never move on. That is the only difference between this chapter and 1,000 others that happened around this time.
You could name any number of regional conflicts from this time period that were much worse in scope and behavior. But they were resolved. That is the difference.
You could name any number of regional conflicts from this time period that were much worse in scope and behavior. But they were resolved. That is the difference.
I don't think there's any comparable intractable conflict. The essential flaw in Zionism was always its late-19th-century European, imperial assumption that 'the natives don't count.' There was a massive failure on the part of some (though not all -- Edwin Montagu, the only Jewish member of the British Cabinet at the time of Lloyd George's Balfour Declaration, strongly objected to it as an obvious and never-ending spur to antisemitic grievance) to see that the Arabs would never accept the proposition.
nah man, they knew from day 0 that the native Arabs would not comply. in fact, they planned for it.
https://en.jabotinsky.org/media/9747/the...
my favorite part ofc
They assumed that the Arabs could just be forced to submit, and that is the part that hasn't happened.
They assumed that the Arabs could just be forced to submit, and that is the part that hasn't happened.
It’s actually been the complete opposite. Arab world thought they could drive the Jews into the sea and it’s been 80 years of effort for nothing.
In fact, Israel is thriving while a large portion of the Arab world lives in poverty and under the subjugation of theocratic dictatorships.
But hey at least that Israeli and American boogeyman keeps the populations in check. Morons lol.
It’s actually impressive how detached from reality you are.
90% of the Arab world gave up and left the Palestinians to fight a futile forever war. Very noble. You can’t make this stuff up lmao.
People gonna call this antisemitism and it's yet another example that the concept is complete bullshit
explosives truck vs preschool and he goes 0-1
i've never seen the like
I don't think there's any comparable intractable conflict. The essential flaw in Zionism was always its late-19th-century European, imperial assumption that 'the natives don't count.' There was a massive failure on the part of some (though not all -- Edwin Montagu, the only Jewish member of the British Cabinet at the time of Lloyd George's Balfour Declaration, strongly objected
American Indian Wars went on for centuries.
The entire history of China is of genocides and forced displacements every few decades. The few well known “golden ages” lasted maybe a hundred years a piece and even those are punctuated by wholesale slaughters to put down uppity neighbors and internal unrest.
Even France, arguably the most peacefully/administratively formed modern nation, pretty much wiped out the population and culture of what is now southern France (around Languedoc especially).
More recently, Rwandans sorted it out by… well, killing a million or so people in a hurry.
To the extent the Israel/Palestine conflict is “uniquely” intractable, it’s because Israel isn’t allowed to utilize the historical option against an intractable enemy: annihilation and there are parties encouraging and financing Hamas to be as intractable as possible.
American Indian Wars went on for centuries.The entire history of China is of genocides and forced displacements every few decades. The few well known “golden ages” lasted maybe a hundred years a piece and even those are punctuated by wholesale slaughters to put down uppity neighbors and internal unrest.Even France, arguably the most peacefully/administratively formed modern nat
Reaching a bit.
You asserted the conflict is uniquely intractable.
Your only evidence is the Arabs would never accept a Jewish state.
I merely pointed out the absurdity of your position by pointing to various historical examples where opposition simply got wiped out and/or forcefully assimilated.
The intent was to supplement the point that Israel/Palestine conflict wasn’t the only messy conflict in the wake of WWII and the collapse of colonial powers.
I don't think there's any comparable intractable conflict. The essential flaw in Zionism was always its late-19th-century European, imperial assumption that 'the natives don't count.' There was a massive failure on the part of some (though not all -- Edwin Montagu, the only Jewish member of the British Cabinet at the time of Lloyd George's Balfour Declaration, strongly objected
What are you talking about? Just to give one example of many, millions of people were genocided and displaced along ethnic and religious lines in the creation of India, Pakistan and later Bangladesh. But the issue was more or less resolved, and people accepted the outcomes and moved on.
Also, you are projecting 21st century morality and concepts of race/ethnicity onto 1945-1948. In 1945-1948, most Europeans did not see Jews as natives, regardless of how long they had been there or their melanin concentration. They saw them as refugees from places where brown people lived. So there was no ethical problem sending them back to where they came from. And further, no problem having the Jews and Arabs fight it out to see who got to live where. Because who cares about tribes of brown peoples fighting over worthless desert (in this respect nothing has really changed).
Also, British objections were pragmatic more than anything. The one thing in your statement that is correct is that the British recognized that the Arab world was going through an extreme ethno-nationalist movement themselves, similar to the ones that had consumed Europe decades earlier leading towards WWI and WWII; and would not accept Jewish refugees.
So British took the side of the Arabs to keep relations good for access to fossil fuel rights; and even cynical blocked Jewish refugees from leaving Axis controlled territories during the Holocaust (leading to hundreds of thousands if not millions of death that could have been avoided) to ensure they wouldn't end up in Israel and upset Arabs as much as they could.
