2/5 hand2 vs aggrofish

This is the right answer.

Gotta bet the flop, too many hands to get value from and having the king locked up means V1 prob isn't gonna stab as much as you think he is. As played, overbet turn. $200 is prob good.

Yeah, raise more pre, bet the flop, you were the preflop aggressor. Everyone expects you to bet. Build the pot to play for stacks.

AP, bet big on the turn, like 100 or 120. You will get calls from KJ, KT, Qx, and flush draws.

Why?
Please explain checking the flop?

No matter what you do now it’s already -EV
The most nutted line in poker is check the flop and bet the turn. You turn your hand face up.

The only thing I know is you have an almost unbeatable hand and you have put in $45 when you reach the turn.

Never checking this flop.

H bets 50
only V1 calls

Pot 240
River 6♦
Hero?? sizing??

That turn sizing :(

He's prob got a lot of 2nd and 3rd pair + busted draws since you have the king locked up, so a bigger bet is prob just gonna get a lot of folds from hands you want a call from. I wouldn't go above half pot tbh.

Too small on turn. Oh, well. Bet ~$100 for, we hope, some value. Other option is to check or bet $50 again if you think he'll bet or raise perceived weakness. Whatever you think will get the most money in since we didn't get it in there ourself.

checking flops as the PFR on boards that favor a PFR when you have a big hand is hardly ever a good idea. in fact when i see someone doing this (checking the nuts on the flop as the PFR without thinking about it) i automatically label them a fish. are you a fish op?

as played this whole hand is a trainwreck. seriously, $50 on the turn? do you hate money?

i guess if you really wanted to play the hand as poorly as possible you could check and fold to a $10 bet.

i honestly have no idea what id do here because id never be in this spot. he could have anything after that tiny turn bet and who knows if checking to induce, betting small, or betting big is best, because you haven't narrowed his range.

I know top set is too strong to keep people in most of the time, but you don't want people to "catch up" on this board - if they catch up, it's to the nuts. As others have said, bet the flop (and larger preflop). The flop check is the worst mistake, but like others I'd go bigger on the turn as played.

Probably going 150 on the river to get called by a Jack.

Without reading any replies yet, why in the name of God, Doyle, and Bobby Hoff didn’t you bet 100 on the flop?

Just horribly played. 2/5 players will cold call, so don't let them in cheap with click it back. Check on flop on wet board is just horrendous. You pretty much never slow play on a wet board. Turn has to be bigger. Why do you not want to get money in with a big hand? Definitely misplayed on every street.

Grunch:

Why the hell are we playing 2/5 with less than $550 on the table? Especially with these two in the game. I'd have the max in front of me.

PRE - even though V2 starts out short, I'd still probably raise more than a min-click with KK. I'd prefer to click it with a more speculative hand that doesn't mind folding to a 4B, and really only doing it when the opener is a total fish we want to ISO for a cheaper price.

With a premium, I prefer to just 3B a normal size and make it harder for players behind us to cold call. If V2 wants to stack off for $200, I'll happily take his money with minimal risk to our stack. If anyone else wants to come along, I want them to pay more to see the flop.

FLOP - just c-bet. Even if we think V1 will frequently stab when checked to, he won't stab as often in a multi-way 3BP, where he wasn't the original raiser or 3B'er, and the board is KJ-high. I'd expect him to mostly check back, even if he's a complete aggrotard.

Multi-way in a 3BP, my usual c-bet size would be under 1/3 pot, probably 20%-25%, so like $30.

But here, with top set on a two-tone, two-Broadway board, one opponent on a short stack and the other with post-flop leaks, I might size up slightly. I wouldn't bet more than 1/2 pot, but might go $50-$70.

I want V1 to call wide, and then have V2 jam over top for $155, re-opening the betting, so we can re-jam. I only wish we had more money in front of us.

TURN - as played, I'd bet small on this nut-changing card, like 40% pot, around $55.

We're getting jammed on by straights, and maybe some other value hands that are worse than ours. V1 may raise as wide as bottom 2P, but he'd have to be pretty clueless. V2 might jam any combo of TP+ or decent draw.

Really, Dango, you should be thinking more about how the population tends to play in spots like this, and what our hand wants to do vs our opponents' likely ranges. You're too focused on what you've seen opponents do one time, earlier in the session, in some situation that seems sort of similar.

IMO, the fact that V1 just ran KK into AA, got stacked, rebought for $1k and is already back to $550 is much more likely to relevant than the fact he barreled off with 97 on QQ587, whenever that was. He's probably somewhat tilted right now. We don't care what was going on back then.

Likewise, if V2 has been punting short stacks repeatedly, let's get into position to make a fair catch.

The way you played this, you put yourself into position to double up V2 or get stacked by V1.

Jam.

If he turned a straight and slow played it, tap the table and go home.

Jam.

If he turned a straight and slow played it, tap the table and go home.

ETA - you didn't give us your starting stack, but you said V1 covers with $550, and I've assumed you cover V2 at $200, so I split the difference and assumed you started with $375, leaving you $280 on the river.

I don't think he's likely to bet big with a worse hand or busted draw if we check to him. I don't think he's likely to call a check-raise with worse value, unless he ran into a set with TT, or gets really sticky with 2P or some pair + nut blocker.

I don't think he has a straight when he flat calls the $50 turn bet (which I think is fine). He's not calling any bet or raising with a busted draw, so we're just targeting his SDV hands that unblock our busted draws.

Is he going to call a jam? I don't know. But I think if he calls a $100-$150 bet here with all his SDV, there must be some combos that will call a PSB. If he folds Jx and worse, so be it. I'd be trying to get called by the case K, 2P, and the odd TT.

Our hand is seriously under-repped. If I was V, I don't think I'd be giving hero credit for having top set or better. Probably not even top 2P when he checks flop. Hero's line getting to the river looks like AXcc that bricked, or something stupid that min-clicked it pre, stabbed turn small, and is now just monkey-jamming in a desperate attempt to take it down.

lol, tricky trappy play at low stakes and on wet boards that favor your range. Bet your hands. Try to get allin with top set. If he folds, he folds. Just awful. Literally badly misplayed on all streets.

As a general rule, when you flop the nuts on a wet board against bad players, you should size your bets to get stacks in. It's analagous to holding AA preflop and facing a raise, your action should generally be a raise. You need good reasons to not take these basic money-making actions. This is lesson zero in the poker strategy handbook.

Everyone is telling you that you should have bet the flop, that's fine, but I think no one has really explained why so I will try:

Side note, you mention it, other people have, playing live your raise 3 should be bigger, especially against as described fish.

So why do we bet this flop in particular against this set of opponents.

Well we know there range is super wide.
We also should realise that even if they dont know what to do about it, they will see your 3bet as a sign of strength. They will be thinking KK / AA / AK in there mind already, and calling hoping to hit something.

So when we see this flop they will be thinking that you have AK. That is what will be in there mind.
They are not thinking ranges, they are thinking AK and will be certain in there mind that's what you have.

If they have totally and utterly missed they wont be trying to bluff here, until maybe a small stab at the river and we are getting no real value that way.

If they have a pair or a draw though they will be more than willing to call, trying to catch you out. They will be hoping to hit 'trips' or to make there straight or flush.
We can bet the flop and turn here. We can give them ridiculously poor odds to draw at there outs and they will still call you down.
You have too get the money in on the flop and the turn because whilst they are poor players they are not going to just gift you money with nothing on the river.
The even more beneficial part of betting the flop is that if they have a wonky flush or straight straw poor players are always ready to raise or jam a draw. I won't do a whole thing about this, but it's an easy option, to reduce cognitive load they just over jam a position, then they don't have to think any more.

I hope this helps to show not just that the right play is to bet the flop (because nut hand, bet bet bet) but why we should be betting the flop especially against these type of players.

Dango, I've told you this before. You need to do a better job ranging your opponents. You're pretty good at developing fairly reliable reads on your opponents, but in-game, you're either not leveraging those reads to exploit their leaks, or you're missing other factors which run counter to your reads.

For example - your read of V1 is that he's aggro, calls wide pre, and will stab when checked to. The example hand you gave was his 97o (I'm guessing he had at least one spade) on QQ5ss in a 3-way pot.

Okay, but QQ5ss is a dry and disconnected board texture. More often than not, no one has anything on that board. That's a texture many recs will stab at when action checks to them. It's not the same as KJ2cc.

We should also notice that he bluffed QQ5ss with air. When he checks back on KJ2cc, he's more likely to have a piece of it. If he missed, he might stab as a bluff. When he checks back, it's probably because he didn't miss.

Your read of V2 was that he's tight pre. And he's on a short stack. When he opens from EP off a short stack, his range should be weighted towards big pairs and big suited connectors. He should connect with KJXcc. He's going to have KX, AJ, JJ, AXcc, AK, KQ, QJ, QT, etc.

When action checks to us on the flop, we should be betting for value. V2 should have a piece of it. We don't care whether V1 calls, or folds because he missed. We don't want this to check through. We'd love it if V1 called and V2 check-jams. Our hand is the nuts on the flop, but it's pretty vulnerable to the bazillion draws our opponents could have. Neither opponent is folding if he has a piece of it.

Good things can happen when we bet. V1 could call or raise. V2 could over-call or check-raise. When V1 checks back flop, rather than stabbing at it, I'd think he has a piece, not that he missed. When V2 checks again on the turn, I'd think he mostly missed, or he drilled a GSSD on the turn and is trapping.

If we think our opponents are capped, we need to put more money into the pot. They're not going to do it for us. On the turn T, they're both uncapped. They could have some straights, so we should bet small to re-cap them. When you bet small and V1 flat calls, he absolutely has some piece of it, but probably not a very big piece. He almost never has a straight.

I wouldn't expect him to check back KJ on the flop, but he could have KT, JT, TT, etc. Hell, he could have T2. He's not going to raise turn without a straight. But he definitely will raise if he has a straight. When he flat calls, his range is going to be either TP+ or a flush draw.

So on the river, we shouldn't be trying to induce him to raise as a bluff, or get value from a lot of marginal hands. He doesn't have bluffs. He's not going to call a small bet or spaz raise with a busted draw. If he was going to do that, he'd have done it on the turn. His "marginal" hands are going to be the worst 1P combos of TX and JX.

Instead of trying to get called by everything in his range, we should be targeting the top of his range. He can have 2P, some sliver of sets, and the case K. When the FDFD bricks, he's not folding KX or better to a PSB. We make more money long term when we target our opponent's strongest hands, not all their hands.

He said he had KJ. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. If he did, he wasn't lying about how much money we left on the table by playing our hand this way.