Too passive?

I'll be outvoted, but AJs is a cuspy hand when involved with shortstacks unless they are quite loose preflop. We've got a couple of stacks <= $200 and any raise is going to put those stacks in play, which can sometimes be dicey on A high flops if they're fine committing postflop. Anyhoo, I'm still fine with the preflop raise (I just think it can be dicey) although I'm going larger after 2 limps.

I'm rarely betting air multiway at small SPRs where TP will feel committed.

Our only raise size against HJ's stack would be a shove for his stack on the turn. It might work, we can rep flopped slowplayed monsters on this relatively dry board, and his sizing certainly doesn't indicate a monster. But with all my nutty outs I think I just prefer to call and have a bunch of hands come in behind to pad my odds.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Flop pot size has to be wrong, you made it 15 and got 3 callers (and HJ limp/folded). So 64-rake?

I would bet AK/AJ with BDFD on the flop, might even bet AcJc.

Turn kind of sucks now, it's so hard for you to check back even QQ on the flop with 3 other people in the hand so the exact kind of hand you have is the most likely to want to raise. So just call.

FWIW as the very first hand at the table I don't think it's as bad to play very passively as an exploit.

Is it Td or Ts on the flop? Ldo it matters holding AJdd.

Clickety click call AP. Might cooler a lower FD. I don't want to get blown off our 12-outer either. 15 if we think the ace helps.

Oh sorry Td. I had a nut flush draw and gutshot on the turn.

I can’t fault you for just looking to realize your equity multiway. I think the whole hand is fine. In my games where I’m frequently heads-up and stacks are deeper I would consider a healthy-sized flop bet, but in the kind of game it seems like you’re in I would probably play it the same as you.

Pre: I wouldn't beat yourself up on raise size at a new table. 15 feels fine as a default and you can adjust as you learn more how the table plays.

Post: You said HJ folds pre, but then bets turn. Can you clarify? Regardless whoever is betting turn is betting it multiway. They have something, and unless you know person, I don't see the value of a semi bluff raise, which needs at least some fold equity. Let's just make a cheap call here and see a river.

Where I play 15 is a typical opening size, so I think with 2 limps - I go a quarter.

Otherwise, played fine - you have implied odds, and several ways to improve, so see the river.

Generally OK. Preflop 5x too small over two limps, make it 20. Gutshot + BD(n)FD + overcard could just about be OK for a cbet but checking probably better. Pot is still small enough to just call turn, with a raise you basically represent the exact hand you have.

I call turn, BTN raised to 65, BB folds, HJ calls, I call. River 3c for QsTd4h6d3c. Checks to BTN who shoves for 70 into about 248. Call with ace high or fold?

Not calling river. Would maybe think about it if turn called 3ways and HJ bet river.

Would be the super nuts if V was bluff shoving river with 5d3d and we called.

O Snap, a bad event - button raise, I’m gone

Similar reason, that I go 25 with 2 limps -
They don’t limp to fold.

Button should know he will get calls, yet he’s firing - and we have nothing. Sure, you can level yourself into equity, but calling 3bets is a major low limit leak.

20% chance of a flush draw which might not be good
7.5% chance of a king

Fold to the 3bet, you got squeezed

Flop raise is not a 3! and I have odds to call.

BTN checked back flop in position and raised turn, so could maybe have a flush draw. BTN's play is odd. Maybe hit a set on the turn o slow played a set or top two pair. Probably not a draw without a pair enough for me to call river.

Do you have odds to call a raise from 20 to 60, when V only has like another 70 back? I guess there's a lot of OPM in the pot, but it's still not great.

BU's play is just plain bad, that short. Just shove already.

I am putting in 45 to win 200 and have implied odds. I easily have odds to call.

BTN's play is very strange, checking the flop in position and raising a fairly blank turn. A shove would be slightly less than pot, so yeah, the sizing is strange.

Even if we assume that button has a set and thus board-pairing outs are no good, you can still call. In fact you could probably just call this raise, then auto-shove when you hit and maybe could even just check-fold to a board pair (which probably isn't the best play, but the point is that calling the raise is profitable and is absolutely fine, don't raise or fold).

Fold river.

Think cbet would have been bad. Rainbow board, but two broadway cards, so somewhat wet. Wouldn't get through much and might get raised, losing cbet and blowing me off equity.

Why does he wake up on blank turn? Thought maybe he made a flush draw too, but would probably flat call or shove with that. Obviously, folded river.

If I've mathed right on the turn, pot is currently $210 and we're being asked to call $45, plus Button has just $70 left which I doubt he's ever folding, so we're really being asked to call $45 to win at least $280, so getting ~6:1, plus we have IO against the deeper guy. Kinda doubtful that we have all flush/straight outs of 15, but even if we reduced that to just a poor 10 outs we'd only need about 5:1. Yeah, maybe some RIO against flush outs that boat up someone (although those RIO are severely limited against shorty). Seems like a trivial turn call closing the action on the turn to me.

In spite of pot odds, I don't think anyone is playing a worse hand like this multiway on the turn/river, so trivial river fold too, imo.

Even though we sometimes beat ourselves up afterwards for playing a hand passively / like everyone else would (i.e. where's the reciprocality?), I think overall it's completely fine / defensible. The sad fact is that there are a huge amount of spots where there isn't that much reciprocality, and even in this spot while a lot of opponents may play our hand similarly it is still likely the case that these jokers are playing their hands very differently than we would have.

Gnicehand,imoG

Don’t forget that in spots where playing passively is better than aggressively, we will have a reciprocality edge over other opponents who are over-agressive on principle when they almost have a flush.

I meant hj folded preflop and lj bet the turn . I cant post without confusing things

If I am new to the table then:
Pre is fine. Maybe on the small size for live, but fine.
Flop against unknown players I am checking.
If I know the players and think I can get folds then I would c-bet this hand, (provided we have the back door nut flush)
Turn is interesting. New to the table and with 0 info I think again calling is optimal. Again if we know the players a bit and think we can get folds then it's a great spot for a raise.

The important thing to really recognise here, is that we are almost never have the best hand post flop on that board, so we should only be betting if we think we are getting folds.

Grunch:

PRE - raise bigger. The LJ and HJ didn't limp in to fold to a $15 raise at 1/3. Make it $25.

FLOP - In multi-way pots, I'm only betting my good hands and best draws. AJdd isn't quite good enough, so check.

TURN - Definitely not folding. HJ isn't all that deep. Not really worried about BTN or LJ raising. Probably just call. If you want to raise, maybe just min-click it.

I could see arguments for raising if HJ was deeper. But he's stabbing 40% pot into three opponents. Even if we want to say everyone is capped when the flop checks through...I'm not sure we actually can say that.

Someone could have 66 here, or AQ/KQ that was pot controlling. We could have QQ or TT that was slow-playing. BTN and BB could have 44.

HJ shouldn't be getting too far out of line here, at least not too often. He could have KQ/QJ, maybe 2P or a set that was trapping on the flop. Maybe J9 or KJ.

Think I'd mostly just flat call and see what happens. Things get weird if we min-click it and suddenly the BTN or BB re-raises. It would suck to raise and have HJ jam on us, which I think happens a lot.

Dafuq? He raised to $65???

I mean...starting with $150, he's not supposed to be bluffing.

This spot kinda sucks. I'm not even sure we're getting enough IO to call now. I'd assume our 1P outs are no good, and we need to make our straight or flush.

It's weird that HJ just flats. I have no idea what's going on here. If I picked up a tell that BTN was FOS, I might find a jam here, and I kind of hope I might sometimes find a nitty fold. I think I'd usually just call and curse my gambling ways when we brick on the river and have to fold.

Did HJ call river? If he did, it's an easy fold.

If HJ folded...yeesh. We're getting such a price, and BTN could conceivably have some bluffs here, I guess, maybe. I think the GTO-bois would say we should fold because our J blocks his bluff combos of KJ and J9, but the ecstasy of hero-calling here and being right would be worth the $70 and then some.

Just skimmed the rest of the replies, and am expecting I'll be flamed for not auto-folding on the river.

The thing is, I said things get weird if we raise flop and BTN or BB re-raise. But they can also get weird if we just flat call. We're opening the door for the short-stacked BTN to bluff.

Is it a good play? No, probably not, when HJ stabs and we call. But we checked flop and then just flatted HJ's bet. We look capped. And whatever HJ has that may be betting for value, BTN's draws have decent equity.

I dunno. I'm not saying BTN is always bluffing or never has a value hand. But I think he's punting often enough with a hand we beat that calling can't be absolutely terrible.

I've found a few hero calls in spots like this with A-high. Usually been right. Not too worried about losing $70 when we're wrong.

Yeah, that was mostly why I posted this. I thought maybe I should have called the river. When he checked in position on the flop and raised the turn, maybe he had a flush draw. Maybe KdJd, Kd9d, Jd9d, 9d8d, or something else with a straight and flush draw.