GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
Since we're using hypotheticals in our argument, I think Shaq would've been the clear GOAT if he had the elite work ethic and dedication that Lebron has.
So since we aren't talking what people did, and are instead talking about what they might have done, I've got Shaq as my GOAT.
I want to watch this Fallguy/DarkCheck bromance blossom for years.
Since we're using hypotheticals in our argument, I think Shaq would've been the clear GOAT if he had the elite work ethic and dedication that Lebron has.
So since we aren't talking what people did, and are instead talking about what they might have done, I've got Shaq as my GOAT.
100 percent agree. Shaq was the most dominant player in history. If he had Lebron or kobe's work ethic he woulda been the goat for sure. I imagine Shaq in his pool eating cheesesteaks and pizza with his kids while kobe was pumping iron and eating his vitamins.
Since we're using hypotheticals in our argument, I think Shaq would've been the clear GOAT if he had the elite work ethic and dedication that Lebron has.
So since we aren't talking what people did, and are instead talking about what they might have done, I've got Shaq as my GOAT.
100 percent agree. Shaq was the most dominant player in history. If he had Lebron or kobe's work ethic he woulda been the goat for sure. I imagine Shaq in his pool eating cheesesteaks and pizza with his kids while kobe was pumping iron and eating his vitamins.
Kobe said in an interview that if Shaq had the same work ethic / dedication that he did, that they'd have won 10 championships together.
Jordan is still the all time leader in retirements.
Don't forget the original dream team Lebron formed with Wade and Bosh. Bosh was the number 1 free agent that everyone wanted. Imagine if Jordan was allowed to hand pick his teams. Jordan, bird, shaq woulda been good team.
Jordan was allowed to do this, he didn't have to sign any contracts with the Bulls (at least not after his first one), he just wanted to because they had the best team and coach.
Also GOAT loser...all time playoff loser with 108. Hopefully he can add to that this year.
Kobe said in an interview that if Shaq had the same work ethic / dedication that he did, that they'd have won 10 championships together.
I mean maybe a world where Kobe is born earlier and they team up in Orlando but then they run into the Bulls in 96.
They could have won in 03, 04 but people grossly downplay how hard it is to play an extra 20 super high intensity games every year for 5+ seasons, he can have all the work ethic in the world that massive frame would still break down.
Same reason it's ludicrous to assume Jordan would have went 8/8 if he didn't retire 1st time, it's hard to win a title and a lot has to go right and Chicago basically had 0 injuries in either 3-peat.
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Magic and Isiah state that the Bulls are a 1-man team in 1993
No one EVER SAID the Bulls were "stacked in the 90's, so it's just a lie to say that now.
The obvious consensus was that they were a 1-man team.. That's why MJ was so revered.. If the Bulls were stacked, no one would've revered MJ like that, and MJ wouldn't have needed goat stats to win... He could've relaxed and averaged 25 to win titles, like Lebron.
Jordan was allowed to do this, he didn't have to sign any contracts with the Bulls, he just wanted to because they had the best team and coach.
You're lying and making stuff up 30 years after that fact.
Even a big-time Jordan hater like "Thinking Basketball" said the Bulls had zero percentile casts (better than zero percent of casts)... Despite no help, Jordan didn't leave because he wasn't a quitter of goals like Lebron is.. The exact same lottery roster from 89' was 3-peating in 93' because Jordan persevered with the team he was given..
There were no additions of talent from other teams - the Bulls simply developed great chemistry, which was possible because Jordan wasn't a ball-dominator that imposes spot-up roles like LeDumb... Jordan's scoring diversity freed up coaches to run whatever they wanted and the best brand of ball possible.
And even when Jordan started winning titles, he never got easy titles with only 25 ppg like Lebron... Jordan was forced to average 41 or carry the scoring load because his cast was garbage and everyone thought they were a 1-mam team.. Magic and Isiah state that the Bulls were a 1-man team with a weak cast (see video in previous post).
So again, you're just lying and making stuff up to pretend that Jordan would've jumped ship like Lebron... But the reality is that no one in history did what Lebron did prior to "the decision"... Lebron is the bum that started the shortcut-taking and colluding, so don't try to put that sh*t on Jordan, who won the most organic chips ever.. Specifically, Jordan is the only guy in history that won titles by developing single-digit rookies into meaningful producers (Pippen/Grant/BJ).. Everyone else was handed stars.. (except Curry - he's is the other exception along with MJ).
Since we're using hypotheticals in our argument, I think Shaq would've been the clear GOAT if he had the elite work ethic and dedication that Lebron has.
So since we aren't talking what people did, and are instead talking about what they might have done, I've got Shaq as my GOAT.
No hypotheticals needed
Lebron never achieved goat levels of individual dominance, while also never achieving goat levels of team dominance like a 3-peat, 70 wins, or dynasty...
In addition to never achieving goat levels of team dominance, Lebron never even achieved standard levels, such as winning with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player.. He needed "super-teams" of 3 franchise players.. He also couldn't win with career 2nd options and needed 1st options to play 2nd & 3rd option for him..
In addition to producing much weaker teams or winning than MJ, Curry, Kobe, Duncan, and others, Lebron had more bad losses than anyone in history.. This includes many sweeps, gentlemen sweeps, meltdowns or upsets despite having all-star teammates and preseason favorites... No one did less with more than LeBallDoninator.. This should surprise no one given his brand of ball.
FG - LeBron James never achieved GOAT levels of individual dominance.
Meanwhile LeBron James in the 2016 Finals...
Jordan was within 30 minutes of joining Ewing and signing with the Knicks in 1996. So yes, he was willing and looking to team up with another star. Proving FallGuy irrevocably wrong yet again.
https://www.si.com/nba/bulls/onsi/old-sc...
yep within 30 minutes.. Jordan wanted to be a Knick and team up with Ewing. Check ****ing Mate.
Only thing that kept him there was the Bulls threw money at him.
MJ was always about the money.
If he was drafted to Cleveland, he probably doesn't make it past season 3 without ditching it for a bigger city.
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^^^^ It's well-known that Jordan had a MASSIVE feud with SI due to this cover and hasn't talked to them in the 30 years since, as SI states here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uSPo7lPyAl...
^^^ Accordingly, SI is essentially an affiliate of Klutch Sports and the 2022 story is a lie.. For example, I followed every second of the 96' season during my freshman year at Bradley and the 97' season as well - no one ever heard of this story - it didn't exist for 30 years until 2022 when Klutch had taken over the media.
Jordan was within 30 minutes of joining Ewing and signing with the Knicks in 1996. So yes, he was willing and looking to team up with another star. Proving FallGuy irrevocably wrong yet again.
^^^ According to the story, Jordan had already won 4 titles, so he DIDN'T leave - he won 4, while Lebron needed to leave to win.
Lebron left and teamed up with TWO pippens at a time (big 3), but still mostly lost and fell short in ring count compared to many peers.
And of course the Sports Illustrated story that you posted is completely fake anyway, as explained in the previous post above.
FG - LeBron James never achieved GOAT levels of individual dominance.Meanwhile LeBron James in the 2016 Finals...
One series from Jordan of 44/6/6 isn't "goat dominance" because it's just 1 series, and TONS of guys get record numbers in a single series..
So again, Lebron lacks goat individual dominance like goat advanced stats, or being #1 all-time (or even top 5) in a major category like PPG, RPG, APG, SPG, or BPG - he isn't anywhere near the best, AT ANYTHING.
And it's hard to say that any of his title runs had goat dominance because he barely averaged 25 ppg for most of them and had equal-scoring partners for every Finals win.. His dominance simply isn't on the level of MJ, Jokic Wilt, Duncan and others, and the numbers show this clearly - they could win with much less by dominating/producing at higher rates/frequency.
Secondly, getting 0.2 more SPG than Kyrie and 1 more RPG than Love are minor statistical anomalies that tons of players have basically matched (leading or nearly leading every category), while doing the much tougher job of carrying the scoring load as well.
Carrying the scoring load (defeating max defensive attention) dictates gameplans - it's the more difficult and IMPORTANT function that allows winning with less, and better teams generally... Carrying the "star" category of scoring also requires less stars, so GM's can get the right "others"/defenders, aka elite roster construction.. So Lebron's inability to carry the scoring load is why his teams are so needy compared to Curry, MJ, Kobe or Duncan (guys that can carry the scoring load).
Serious question FG. Was LeBron's 2016 NBA Finals more dominate than MJ's 1996 Finals?
You're forgetting that McLovin already stickied my response to this question on the first page because he found the response so insightful and amazing..
I reposted the response and insight for you below...
Serious question FG. Was LeBron's 2016 NBA Finals more dominate than MJ's 1996 Finals?
Imagine if Mathurin dominated MVP Shai in last year's Finals, or if Pippen dominated MVP Barkley in 93' - it's impossible to lose when a sidekick destroys the MVP, and obviously the 1st option wouldn't have to play that well to win in these scenarios.
For example, the 1st option could average 24 and 6 TO's for the first 4 games to get a 1-3 deficit - that's what Lebron did... Meanwhile, MJ dominated to get a 3-0 lead.
^^^ If we play out this scenario 100 times, Lebron loses 99 times and MJ wins 99 times.
Based on this reality, MJ played better because he didn't choke for 4 games and cause near-certain loss like Lebron did, thereby needing unlikely bailouts from the league and teammates.. Essentially, Lebron choked for 4 games and then got lucky with suspension and teammate bailout.
In addition to the unlikely bailouts, the reason Lebron got away with choking for 4 games is because his sidekick was dominating the league MVP (unprecedented help and unlosable situation) - this includes 30 on 53% for Kyrie in the last 3 games.. Lebron had an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention, so he never had to defeat max defensive attention like MJ did on all 6 Finals.
So yes, Jordan played better in his worst Finals then Lebron played in his "so-called" best Finals (his most dominant Finals was actually 2012, even though it was against babies).. The fact that you need to compare Lebron's perceived best Finals to Jordan's worst makes the case that Jordan is far superior... If we look at Lebron's worst Finals in 2013, 2011, 2007, or 2014, there's no comparison - Jordan's 96' Finals is easily superior.
That's right. I had forgotten about that. We felt it was the quickest way for a random reader to quickly work out never take anything you say seriously.
Man, looking at those numbers MJ was horrible.
I mean he was outplayed by Shawn Kemp.
Imagine MJ being outplayed by a guy who was maybe a borderline Top 10 player in the league at his peak and still winning in 6.
Shows how amazing MJ's teammates were.
lol, MJ took 34 more shots than Kemp and only outscored him by 24.
Man MJ was a chucker in that series.
