2/5 cbet or give up?
2/5 8 handed, very high rake and fish infested room.
Table is filled with shortstacks.
V is a lag, opens very wide(37s in mp) and frequently. Cbets high frequency. He's crushing the table, been sitting with over 2.5k since I've sat down. He seems very sticky vs the fish. He doesn't chop blinds, stole my bb 1 time.
Spoiler
HH1
V in HJ opens 20, H 3bets to 65 w/KThh, V calls w/ATcc
Flop KKQccs H cbets 50, v x/c
Turn 8s H bets 160, V x/jam for like 225 more, H calls and is good.
HH2
Fish opens 30 in co AhKo
V in btn w/QJo
Flop AJThh Fish cbets V calls
Turn Qh fish bets again V calls
River K xx, I was surprised V checked back
HH3
2 limpers
V in btn opens w/65o
like 3 callers
Flop A87ss fish donks 50 V calls
Turn 9s fish bets 100 V calls
Riv 6 fish bets 175 V calls and is good, fish shows 88
H has 3betted 3 times already, 2 vs V's open, 1 squeezing V in between. V folded twice and called ATs in hh. H has also folded all the times V opening light/wide.
Eff 1000
Btn(fish) rock straddles to 15
V in sb limps(no clue of his limping range, usually its open/call for V)
H in bb opens to 75 w/A♠K♣
Only v calls
Hu pot 165
Flop 8♦6♦5♥
V checks
Hero?? We cbetting this board or giving up? V probably fires high frequency on turns.
We treating this hand like 3bet pot?
15 Replies
Take the FreeCard, but not giving up…. yet
See what happens on the turn
You can’t get around the fact that you missed everything & the board smacks villain’s range.
If you think that making a small bet on the flop, villain will call & check the turn, you might try that. With about a 25% chance of pairing your ace or king, I wouldn’t count on that happening. So, putting no more chips in the middle seems the best plan.
I'm not betting this vs. this guy, take a card.
Check and see what happens
Spoiler
ok we x back
Turn T
V bets 80
H folds
After hand, I was thinking maybe we get owned always because v always will rep it on the turn especially we are capped by checking back flops.
After he was racking up i asked what he had, he said top pair.
Spoiler
ok we x back
Turn T
V bets 80
H folds
After hand, I was thinking maybe we get owned always because v always will rep it on the turn especially we are capped by checking back flops.
After he was racking up i asked what he had, he said top pair.
You're rarely getting owned and if you are nh to them. This board sucks butt for us.
I don't think we need to be balanced at these stakes. It's fine to check back flop and fold turn with AK, and c-bet flop for value with our over-pairs. We can also check back flop with our OP's if we know he's going to probe bet most turns, especially if he uses too-big sizes. We don't have to call turn with AK just because he might think bluffing.
I would check back an over pair on this board with the plan to call down, maybe bet if checked to. Pretty much checking range on this board, but I might bet a straight or set, although unbalanced.
Spoiler
ok we x back
Turn T
V bets 80
H folds
After hand, I was thinking maybe we get owned always because v always will rep it on the turn especially we are capped by checking back flops.
After he was racking up i asked what he had, he said top pair.
That makes sense to me. With top pair on a board that misses your range completely, I would be firing. The sad part is that if you had that read, you could likely run him off his hand representing a pocket pair with aggression. It’s a risky ‘brute force’ play as he’s folding the eights, but never folding if he flopped 2pair+
Many players, if they hit the board at all, they go to the river no matter the action. You can’t bluff these players.
I get out-voted, but I don’t like raising out of the BB and I think you went too big. The difference in me & you is that I would have lost 15 with this fold.
I get the feeling you think the flop check looked weak and now villain is going to bluff bet. I think you give players too much credit. This guy is not betting AQ here.
Until a player becomes comfortable folding AK, they will struggle in this game. We’re told it’s a top hand and are reluctant to let it go, but it’s not that hard. Last session I folded QQ when an ace & king flopped and there was pressure ahead of me. It was such a pretty hand.
That makes sense to me. With top pair on a board that misses your range completely, I would be firing. The sad part is that if you had that read, you could likely run him off his hand representing a pocket pair with aggression. It’s a risky ‘brute force’ play as he’s folding the eights, but never folding if he flopped 2pair+Many players, if they hit the board at all, they go to
not raising from the BB here with AK vs a straddle and an overcall from the sb is burning $$
OP, you can be checking your overpairs on this board too, so while villain can of course be semi bluffing, he shouldn't be super light
if you call turn, you should be doing it with a clear plan on calling a lot of rivers too once you range him. it can't be in the hope of hitting a K or A or hoping he'll shut it down on the river.
plan is check back flop, eval turn and sizing, in this case a T with a half PSB is probably a fold vs population.
ItÂ’s definitely not burning $$
There may be a reason to raise, but itÂ’s not this
OOP with a drawing hand is never a great spot to shovel in money.
This is the wrong way to think about it. Every hand has good flops and bad flops. TT is a "drawing hand" in that you are drawing to a set or a bunch of low cards.
He mentions that there is a high rake, so taking it down pre is a better outcome than usual.
Anyway, this is an annoying hand because I think V is going to play almost his whole range this way and always win against this hand.
We could make a little stab OTF because we don't care much if we get CRed off the hand. This would fold out some of his hands that completely missed but might bluff us later. Charge him a bit to go on.
Checking is fine though as there are good turns. A, K, board pairs. We get an awful turn and he takes advantage of it. While we are ahead here sometimes (V could be betting nearly 100% of the time now) calling is going to be dicey. Even rivering top pair is not all that great.
Not a good hand to bluff raise either.
This is the wrong way to think about it. Every hand has good flops and bad flops. TT is a "drawing hand" in that you are drawing to a set or a bunch of low cards.
.
This is the wrong way to look at it.
TT is a made hand that can win without improvement.
AK is a drawing hand that will miss the flop 68% of the time. Not many people are good at navigating with nothing out of position.
So, I’m calling both of these hands from the BB if someone opens. I would rather play defense with a small pot & wait until I’m on offense (ahead) to get value.
It’s become clear to me that many people simply don’t understand the power of position, where I would be jacking these hands up.
This is why we check back most of our range on flop.
