GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
Jordan never blinked under pressure, except when he wanted to shoot his free throws with his eyes closed, or wink to the player he was scoring on. Jordan, like all goats, thrived under the pressure, That's when he was at his best. That's when it's fun for him. Like fallguy said Jordan relaxed sometimes when it wasn't an important game. Maybe for team unity to let his other guys get some recognition. But don't wake up a sleeping giant like Garnett did when he played with the timberwolves. Garnett told his Jr Rider you own jordan or something like that. Jr said be quiet, he's right there, he's gonna hear you. Jordan heard him than woke up and absolutley destroyed the guy. Jr said nobody ever dominated him so much in his career. I think Jordan either was telling him them about it or glaring at them the rest of the game.
Really? I get you guys like Lebron and want to argue he was better than jordan. I think it's nuts, but showing Lebron's accomlishments are fair to try and argue. But now you guys are claiming Jordan choked? And played bad in big games? This is absurd. Jordan never choked once that i ever saw. And someone will point out his first 6 years his team didn't win titles. That's on his
Jordan really has 7 championship titles and zero losses. His clutchness began way back in college at North Carolina hitting the game winner to win the championship. The legend just grew from there.
Besides the proof of why he's the goat. You had to be there at the time. Like it was really different. There was this aura around him wherever he was playing, especially early in his career, that this dude we'd never see again. It was like he had magic powers. Spacejam was a documentary! There would be hush's and gasps in the crowd everytime he touched the ball. Becasue everyone knew something special was gonna happen. Then he'd make some crazy move fly like an eagle, and make the best, most devastating, dunk the game would ever see. I'm talking just in regular season games in those first 6 years when his team was bad, and he was playing in some midwest town playing another bad team.
It was like everyone already knew this guy would go down in history as a folk hero, or iconic figure like Babe Ruth, The Beatles, Elvis, It's like people were going back in time to watch legends like those people before they were iconic legends. Like we already knew this dude was not once in a lifetime, but once in everyone's lifetime. Bird called him an alien or something.
Jordan never blinked under pressure, except when he wanted to shoot his free throws with his eyes closed, or wink to the player he was scoring on..
https://youtu.be/JmK-wp5tJHg?si=BSOWA75A...
Who was he winking at?
https://youtu.be/JmK-wp5tJHg?si=BSOWA75A...
Who was he winking at?
We're talking series and games, not single possessions.
And you made the point anyway by picking the exception that proves the rule.
Otoh, Lebron has so many of those and actually has the most clutch turnovers ever, so it's amazing that one of his fans could point fingers at someone else when their guy is literally the worst-ever at it.
You've projected the faults of the worst-ever clutch turnover machine onto the best clutch player ever.. Aside from big men, no highly-productive player took care of the ball better than Jordan, and no one produced more in the clutch, or shot better in clutch-time or game-winners.. Let me know if you need sourced stats for any of this.
ultimately, ONLY lebron had bad series and performed badly in big games.. Never Jordan, who literally everyone (outside of LeFraud victims) views as the greatest clutch player ever, BY FAR
If Lebron has the most "clutch turnovers" ever and that makes him the best ever at it, I assume that he is therefore the best ever scorer because he has the most points ever too then right?
.
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Jordan scored at a 40% higher rate than Bron/Kobe/Curry while having a better rTS% by 9.2%TS vs Bron & 1.9%TS for Kobe.
Here's their offensive gamescore & +/- per 40min:
Jordan: 26.2 (+8.3*)
Kobe: 19.5 (+18.0)
Curry: 16.0 (+19.1)
LeBron: 15.3 (-8.5)
* +/- for MJ only 97 & 98 finals from play by play era
If Lebron has the most "clutch turnovers" ever and that makes him the best ever at it, I assume that he is therefore the best ever scorer because he has the most points ever too then right?
No, I mean he has the highest clutch-time turnover FREQUENCY - he averages the most turnovers in clutch-time compared to MJ, Curry, Kobe, Duncan, Kawhi and many others - basically he's the biggest turnover machine among anyone that he's compared to.
For example, he had 7 turnovers in the 4th and OT of the critical Game 4 that swung the 09' ECF - he turned into a 12 turnover per game player in clutch-time for that series - it's impossible for a team to win if their top guy turns into Mr. Butterfingers in clutch-time.
This is just 1 example... He's also the only player in history to average 6 TO's and 35% shooting in a series and he did it twice in 07' and 08' Playoffs.. He also averaged 24 and 6 TO's for the first 4 games of the 16' Finals to get a 1-3 deficit... Accordingly, he needed 7 games, teammate bailout, and league bailouts to win.
There are countless examples of Lebron being a turnover machine, ESPECIALLY in the clutch.. Among the top 30 players all-time, Lebron is EASILY the worst turnover player in clutch-time, and likely the worst clutch player period.. He certainly has the most examples of meltdowns, chokes, and all-time bad clutch efficiency or turnovers
Keep in mind that those clutch numbers for MJ are from 97' and 98', so his ridiculously higher level of domination compared to Kobe and Lebron CAME AGAINST A LOT OF THE SAME PLAYERS/COMP - aka old MJ was far more dominant against a lot of the same players and comp that Kobe and Lebron faced
.
Clutch-time (last 5 within 5)
CAREER PLAYOFFS (PER GAME)
LEBRON..... 40% on 3.0 attempts
DURANT..... 40% on 3.0 attempts
CURRY........ 40% on 3.0 attempts
KOBE.......... 40% on 3.0 attempts
MJ .............. 48% on 3.6 attempts*
* 97' and 98 Playoffs only
SUMMARY: Jordan shot FAR better in clutch-time despite 20% more attempts/burden
This greater domination came against a lot of the same players/comp that Kobe and Lebron faced.
(these stats are from basketball-reference game-finder (anyone can verify), and the links have been posted elsewhere itt)
fallguy,
I have seen the light. JORDAN IS THE GOAT. how does it feel to have converted the MODERATOR of SE!? to the Jordan Religion
https://youtu.be/JmK-wp5tJHg?si=BSOWA75A...
Who was he winking at?
That was some dude wearing number 45, not 23. That's the key there. This was Jordan when he came out of retirement season. Or should say half, or less of a season. He came back midseason and wasn't in game ready fitness those playoffs. You could see he was exhausted. Looked more tired than his flue game in nba finals where he was awesome, but could hardly stand up. He wins it then literally falls in to Pippen's arms out of exhaustion. Dude could barely stand up and played an entire game outplaying everyone with the flu. Something tells me if Lebron had the flu it woulda went different, if he decided to play the game. Jordan was never right that season. I bet it's not that easy to come out of retirement mid season and expected to play as great as the greatest player who ever lived.
I thought you were gonna show me a bunch of chokes from Jordan. You showed me a man who was tired and still looked like the best player on the floor. He didn't even miss a shot. Yes he made a bad pass maybe, his timing was off due to not playing with Pippen until mid or late season when he came back. The rust of their knowing each others games was cleary off that whole season. This compared to the other guy? Cmon bro.
How'd Jordan do the next 3 seasons after that loss to Orlando? Another 3 peat? Wow, did Lebron do that? I mean did he do one 3 peat? Jordan had two 3 peats? Wow, is that even possible? That dude musta been good at basketball! Btw, Jordan 2 3peats in a shortened career due to mid career retirement. Also played 3 years in college which shortened his nba career even more.
What was Lebron's nba finals record 4 wins and how many losses? Could you imagine Jordan losing that many finals? Yeah, i couldn't imagine it either. And one of the wins was the bubble seaon which shouldn't count imo.
Lebron is good at basketball, Jordan kinda better. All good bro, just sayin let's keep it real.
Oh so just wear a different number and you're a different guy got it.
He came back midseason and wasn't in game ready fitness those playoffs. You could see he was exhausted. Looked tired, could hardly stand up. He literally falls in to Pippen's arms out of exhaustion. Something tells me if Lebron had done this I'd be calling him soft and making fun of him and posting GIFs of what a soft bed wetting failure he was who load managed all season and
Good post.
There was a bro code thing among the greats of the game of not running on your home team, and fans, to join a super friends team. But if jordan did that he woulda won a championship every season he played period. He pretty much did that without joining a super friends team. It got Lebron 3 titles and one bubble win, and a whole bunch of losses coming out of the east which was always a soft conference compared to the west in Lebron's era. Lebron had a buy to the finals every year as his only competition was the toronto raptors led by 2 very good players, but young in their careers, and not great teams. This while Jordan had to play the great teams of the eastern conference in his days.
Btw, Jordan was like a super alpha type guy and would never want to be shown being held by Pippen to look like a beta. Which proves that Jordan did the unthinkable. He single handidly won a champinship being the best player on the floor in a situation when most humans wouldn't have the strength to get up off the couch to grab a drink out of the fridge. That's some serious GOATNESS!!!!!!!
It was like he was on a mission impossible, Then mission completed and could finally let go once mission completed. Then Pippen saved him from hitting the floor as Michael was like i did it, now let me go back to bed with my flu.
Remember when Jordan had a chance to force a Game 7 against the Magic when his team was up 12 with a few minutes left in the game and then choked like no one before him.
Some of the most embarrassing misses of all time in this mix below.
Of course MJ three-peated. His team was loaded, in a water-downed league that wanted MJ to win.
Even FG said that MJ could cruise in the ECF and Finals in 96 against teams that won 60 and 64 games respectively.
In a game number no one else has ever played, LeBron has 30/15/9 on 55% shooting.
To put it in perspective, MJ had one game in his career where he had those numbers or better.
MJ did it at 21 years old. LeBron doing it at twice the age.
Amazing.
In a game number no one else has ever played, LeBron has 30/15/9 on 55% shooting.
To put it in perspective, MJ had one game in his career where he had those numbers or better.
MJ did it at 21 years old. LeBron doing it at twice the age.
Amazing.
None of today's numbers mean anything.. 40-year Jordan would easily average 30 in Lebron's shoes AND win the game last night... The reason Lebron lost is because his 2009 ball-dominance is played out and tons of guys (like Cooper Flagg) are better at it than he ever was.. Ball-dominance is a loser and always will be.
And again, in a single game that was set up to feed me the ball, I could get 20 on 35 TS in today's beginner format that's designed to fill the boxscore.... ANY D1 player could drop 20 points, while any NBA starter could average 25+ legitimately if they had the green light.
Accordingly, there is NOTHING IMPRESSIVE about Lebron's performance because anyone could do it in today's format, and his ball-dominance is a massive loser anyway.. He lost to a 19 year old and was destroyed by a 19-year... Certainly, a scorer like Jordan would never let a 19-year old outscore him by that much (50% more points for the teenager/Cooper compared to Bron)
Of course MJ three-peated. His team was loaded, in a water-downed league that wanted MJ to win.
Even FG said that MJ could cruise in the ECF and Finals in 96 against teams that won 60 and 64 games respectively.
Show me a single quote from the 90's where someone (ANYONE) said the bulls were "stacked", "loaded", or something of that nature...
You're simply lying... Full stop.
Everyone regarded the 90's Bulls as a 1-man team that won via defense, chemistry and MJ... No one thought they were stacked...
They Bulls had the least offensive help in the entire league and among the worst offensive help EVER.. This is statistical fact...
Ultimately, the reason Jordan has been regarded as the goat is because the bulls clearly WEREN'T stacked... Accordingly, it's goat to win 6 chips with a very "ordinary" roster.. Outside of LeFraud victims, all of this is common knowledge and historical fact.
