“Do you ever feel like you’re playing fine… but something is slightly off?”

It’s never too late to catch it happening, take a 2 minute break stretching and breathing, and restart as if you’re starting a new session.

Back in my attempted grinder days, I had a rule "Nothing good happens after midnight" and my win-rate improved dramatically just by having a hard line of cashing out at midnight no matter how great the game was, whether I was up down or sideways. So I generally played 2-12.

Now as a rec, I break that rule all I want and just play until I'm not having fun. But certainly I'm going to play better if I take a trip where I play for 4-5 hours then go do something else and come back as opposed to powering through a 12-14 hour session. If I go to sleep early and hit the tables at 4 AM it's almost like fish in the barrel.

Playing really good poker is work. You're going to lose your sharpness, even if you continue to go through a good thought process. Fortunately, just having a good process is enough to be profitable in many typical live games, but it's good to identify your body's rhythms and how long you can maintain your A game. Then set a hard line. Especially if you are playing a bigger game or tougher lineup.

One of the local casinos has a promo occasionally where the players with the most hours the month play a freeroll for a $10k tourney buy in. So all the grinders put in insane hours for month. I love it because the most dangerous players are all putting in insane hours and are impaired. It greatly reduces my risk.

That actually resonates a lot with me.

I’ve got ADHD as well (with a bit of spectrum traits mixed in), so I know exactly what you mean about the meds wearing off — it’s not like you suddenly start playing “bad”, it’s more like your edge just quietly fades without you noticing.

That’s actually the exact problem I’ve been digging into… that moment where your decisions still feel correct, but something underneath isn’t firing the same way.

I’m working on something that tries to detect that state in real time while you’re playing — not telling you what to do, just flagging when your A-game is starting to slip so you can step away before it costs you.

Out of curiosity — what kind of volume are you putting in when that starts happening?

And are you mostly playing online or live? If online, which sites are you grinding these days?

Also what stakes are you usually playing?

I’m trying to map patterns across different setups (volume / stakes / environment) to see where this hits hardest.

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That’s actually a really sharp way of looking at it.

“Nothing good happens after midnight” is basically a manual version of what I’ve been trying to quantify — putting a hard boundary on when your A-game is statistically gone, even if it feels like you’re still playing fine.

The interesting part you mentioned is the rhythm side of it — the 4 AM sessions feeling like fish in a barrel vs long grinds where sharpness fades. That lines up with what I’ve been seeing too… it’s not just fatigue, it’s timing + load + duration stacking together.

What I’m working on is trying to detect that drop-off in real time instead of relying on fixed rules — because sometimes midnight is fine, and sometimes you’re cooked way earlier depending on the session.

Out of curiosity — when you were grinding seriously, what kind of volume were you putting in weekly?

And were you mostly live like you are now, or did you play online as well?

Also interested what stakes you were playing when you noticed that edge drop-off the most — especially in tougher lineups.

I typically take a 1/2 day dose of Adderall in the morning when I get up. I haven't been able to nail down exactly how long it lasts. Maybe 6 hours, maybe 8, maybe longer. I only take a 1/2 day dose in the morning so that I can get to sleep at a reasonable time.

I'll typically go play live, usually 1/3, but sometimes 2/5, or I'll late reg for a turbo tournament, and start playing around 2pm-4pm. I'll also sometimes play in some private home games.

That tournament late reg cutoff is around 2pm, and I've actually had good results in the event, despite it often running until after 10pm.

What I've noticed a lot is that I'll play my best at the beginning of a cash game session, when I'd think the meds are just starting to wear off. I'll run up a big stack, but I'll often lose it if I play longer than 4-5 hours, which sucks, because I only get to play once a week, if that, so I'd like to play longer, especially when I'm winning.

As I'm writing this, it occurs to me that I may have done better in the late stages of the tournament because everyone is playing short and it pays to be aggressive, whereas I may struggle to play deep stacked in cash games after I've been playing 5-6 hours, and my aggro instincts don't serve me as well.

It doesn't help that some of my best sessions have been some of my longest sessions. So I can't even be sure if session length has anything to do with it.

I've experimented with taking another 1/2 day dose before I go play, and also tried taking a lower dose with extended release. I don't know if the second full dose helps my game. I've sometimes noticed I'll be hyper-focused, to the point that I overlook meaningful info. I'm focused, but not necessarily thinking clearly. Plus, I'll end up being awake until dawn. I'm not sure if the lower dose extended release helps or not.

When I look back at my thoughts in game, I can tell when I was at my best and when I wasn't. It's harder to tell in the moment. Complicating matters is the usual variance or run good / run bad. Hard to say if I was playing at my best or worst or if I just got hit with the deck or ran into it. I'm sure most of us tend to analyze our game more after a losing session.

My last session was at a home game. I started playing around 7:30pm, and only lasted a couple hours. Afterwards it was very clear to me that I was definitely not at my best.

I suspect other factors play a part, like sleep, diet, and exercise.

Jason Su ‘The Joy of Poker’ will improve your focus. I find that I can show up and play an eight-hour stretch with full attention. Has some powerful ideas.

Whoever said it was hard work, that’s an understatement. Making a bad decision can be punished severely & there are so many pitfalls to avoid. Protect your cash.

You have to recognize your weaknesses. I go home after a session and happily get back to my quiet routine. I don’t think I could get up and do it again the next day without falling off some.

But I’m not as young as you folks. I would guess that when you play a hand that you would normally fold, it’s a warning that your game is falling off. I think people get tired, can’t make the big folds and spew.

I am puzzled to understand what you are describing. Sometimes, I do feel anxious when I’ve been folding what seems like an eternity. I don’t know why, there’s no pressure.

Results are important to me. I come to compete and that’s how you measure winners.

I can’t worry about noise: something is not clicking, something is off, variance etc.

The tight passive just made a big bet
Unknown is looking aggressive with 2nd 3Bet
Larry crushed after that beat, tight for awhile
Mike is playing every single hand today, etc
and
Fundamentals First
Read the Action, Player, Board
Just Play the Game!

Adding another data point to my post above. It had been a while since I'd tried taking a second dose of Adderall before a session, so I tried it again before playing yesterday.

I think I played well enough. I didn't make any huge punts. Other than a couple too-loose calls of smallish bets in smallish pots, I was pretty solid overall.

But I noticed again that I'm not necessarily sticking to a repeatable thought process in game. I was playing with a mix of logic and intuition/feel, which may not be bad, but I worry that I'm susceptible to acting impulsively, because without I'm often acting very quickly.

For me it's very noticeable when I take anything with codeine. I get a lot of migraines and if I feel one starting while I am playing, I delay taking anything for as long as I can because I know it affects my game big time. It just removes my ability to make fast instinctual moves with which I can portray strength both when I do and don't have the hand.

If my migraines get so bad that I am forced to take something (especially Sumatriptan), I start to play a lot tighter and make sure I have the goods before doing anything that I might regret.

“I’m noticing something interesting reading all your replies.

Everyone here has a way to deal with the drop-off:

take breaks
set time limits
adjust play style
rely on feel

But all of those happen after the fact.

The common thread is, you only know for sure once it’s already cost you.

That’s the part I’m focused on.

Not fixing leaks.
Not strategy.

Detecting the exact moment your decision quality starts to drift… while you’re still playing.

Because if you can catch it early:

- you don’t need strict session limits
- you don’t rely on guesswork
- you don’t have to wonder if it’s variance or you

You just bow out before the damage happens.

Curious — if something like that existed, would you actually trust it mid-session?

.

I think this video might help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2xLWmm5...

Good thread and I wanted to make a post but didn't think it warrants its own thread so I'm asking here:

What do you guys do when you are playing fine and you soulread some LAG who wants to steal the pf pot and gii good pfai huge like 72% dominating favorite (AK vs some Ax junk) and get sucked out?

We're supposed to win like 72% of the time right but I've had enough sample size that this figure is probably 45% and this mainly happens with unmade hands like our Ace-high: question is should we adjust our game even though you *know* you made the right move 4betting, just to avoid this crazy variance?

I personally just think playing your A game for extended periods takes so much focus and vigilence of your emotional state along with acceptance of whatever you're feeling an going thru that very very few people are capable fo playing their A game for extended periods bc on any session where things aren't going perfectly results wise which is a high % of them, you will be feeling tons of negative emotions which you also have to be accepting and letting go of very quickly/transmuting and it's not a process that most people go thru very quickly while staying highly focused, alert, and conscious

Of course we can all work on it by playing more and being more accepting of whatever we're experiencing while working to improve our skills and implement them in game. It's just a life long process that exists while at the table and away from the table in life as a whole. I think being present(mostly off your phone) not only while playing but while out in public spaces where most people are on their phones while waiting for anything) is the exact process that builds our ability to make better and better decisions in not only poker but life as well

I certainly felt it last night. Two set over sets on the flop and I was the lesser in both occasions, stacked both times. That's a record for me 😡

That is quite normal during long sessions. Our brains just aren't made to focus and make high quality decisions for so long. I feel like a lot of poker players try going against that, forcing long sessions, so on and so forth. There's a few things you can do
- Taking breaks - mentioned before - I would say that's mandatory, if you can do it. Whatever you do it's very unlikely to be able to play quality A game for more than 1h30 or so, as that's just how our dopamine/ focus system is wired
- Simplifying spots: trying to not constantly lose energy on decisions that can be standardized - fine line here as you also don't wanna go into autopilot.
- Make sure your body is optimized for performance & focus (sleep, nutrition, exercise)
- One tool I use and my clients said it's been quite useful is to take time to pinpoint what factors do you start missing when you drift - like, it can be following range, counting combos etc. - and put somewhere on your screen or on your phone if you play live - a reminder to ask yourself that question every hour or so - that's if you're forced to play longer sessions - it brings back focus and helps you catch the moment you start autopiloting.
Hope this helps.

Yes, very often