GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

People have always talked about which team has the best roster or the most talent.

And in the 90's, no one was saying the Bulls had the best roster or the most talent.

Otoh, people said that about the 80's Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, and eventually the Pistons too... The Pistons were also written about as drastically outmatching the Bulls' roster, particularly when the AP reported how they were favored to three-peat heading into the 91' season.

You want evidence of these things but they're common knowledge, so instead of saying "I need help with common knowledge, therefore find me evidence", your response SHOULD be "I didn't find anything like that when I researched it".

The Bulls couldn't win with defense unless Jordan carried the offense, while being a goat defender.. Only MJ could win with a cancer and "4 on 5 guy" like Rodman.. Btw, at least 5 teams in history had 3 All-defensive players, but only 1 of them was a 1-man team offensively.

Secondly, no one ever talked about a stacked roster and included the coach... It's only the 1-man Bulls that people add the coach to the roster talent, lol... And since Phil had MJ, something extraordinary like 72 wins was required to get COY... so yeah, IF phil wins 72 and has the goat team, THEN he can win coach of the year despite having MJ.

Essentially, having the COY doesn't mean a roster is stacked, and neither does a "4 on 5 guy" and cancer like Rodman.. The only thing that would make the Bulls "stacked" is if Pippen was actually a top guy, since that would be similar to other great duos like Durant/Curry, Magic/Kareem, Wade/Lebron, AD/Lebron, etc...

However, Kareem clearly wasn't a "pippen", and neither was Wade, Durant or Curry... The term "pippen" is used to describe a SECONDARY producer and career 2nd option like Klay, Middleton, and Pippen.. So unlike the aforementioned duos that contained 2 franchise players and 1st options, the Jordan/Pippen duo was a clear Batman and Robin situation..

Infact, there's never been a bigger gap between 1st and 2nd option than MJ/Pippen, so Pippen was the most carried sidekick ever and therefore shouldn't sniff MVP votes in seasons that MJ played.. This is intuitive and statistical fact... Btw, 6moy?? Lol stahp it.

like i said.... no evidence

Last 3 games by LeBron. Just insane.

+36 in the last two games.

Michael Jordan never had a game of 26+ points and 12+ assists, on 60% shooting.

What we are seeing at 41 is just special.

It's literally nothing.. It's bad and an abomination.. Here's the facts, so you can properly perceive what you're "witnessing".

The only reason that Lebron averaged 20 ppg this year is because he sat out against all the good teams and only played against the bad teams... This is a historical fact and an amazing display of cowardess.

He missed 3 of 4 games against the Spurs, and 2 of 4 against OKC, and all 3 games against Minnesota.. He also missed big games against the Celtics, Knicks, and Bucks... If he played all these games and also played 82 games, he would be under 20 ppg for the season and all his numbers would be worse.

Lebron simply boosted his numbers via load managing and running scared from the good teams.

Ultimately, Lebron is a perennial loser, colluder, cheater (steroids), flopper, and coward.. Accordingly, he's the weakest superstar the NBA has ever seen, and he ruined basketball with his collusion, load-managing, flopping, non-competitiveness, and softness.

There are at least 40 players in history that I would choose to build around before Lebron because it's a provable fact that no one underachieved rosters more than Lebron... 4 rings is a JOKE given how much help he had, and it's even worse since he got lucky for 2 of the rings, and he was 2nd option for another one (and faced babies and shortened season for the other ring).... AND his teams were beaten by record amount 3 times, aka the good teams beat him by record amount, while the 1-star teams upset him (Mavs, Magic, Twolves)..

Do you realize that the only excuse for losing by record amount is having the worst roster ever???... Unfortunately, Lebron had a defending champion super-team and preseason favorite when he lost by record amount in 2014!!!!... It's one of the biggest underachievements ever and a microcosm of his career.

All of them.. Google it . They were all 1st team each time

But it's irrelevant because your argument is erroneous... Winning with defenders (and no offensive help) is the HARDER path... Specifically, the Bulls couldn't win with defense unless Jordan carried the offense, while being a goat defender himself (aka the GOAT)...

Again, when we look at the teams with 3 first-team defenders, the Bulls were the only 1-man team on offense.

No that's false.

We can deduce this like an equation... Essentially, goat dominance allows weaker casts, so if the cast is somehow strong, then the goat dominance isn't needed and doesn't happen.

But we know that the goat dominance DID happen because Jordan carried the scoring load in every series... So since the goat dominance happened, we can conclude the cast was weak.

Btw, Jordan's dominance offensively and not needing scoring help is what ALLOWED the gm to get good defenders.... Scoring is the "star" category, so carrying it requires less stars and allows GM's to get the right "others"/defenders, aka elite roster construction... Unfortunately, everyone in history needed great scoring help, so no one could build defensive rosters like MJ.. His offensive carrying allowed GM's to get better defenders than his peers, who needed tons of offensive help.. Carry on

Can you please tell me the times that there were 3 representatives from the same team in the All NBA First Defensive Team.

Did you just quote yourself 90 minutes later?

I think he did.

FG - Sprite or Gatorade?

For the 23rd season LeBron will average 20/5/5. No other player has done it more than 10 times.

20/5/5 is not impressive for people being talked about as goat. Jokic feels like a 35/15/15 guy. Not sure his actual numbers and know i'm exaggerating some so don't come at me saying he's way worse than that. Just saying those numbers look closer for Jokic. That average of 20/5/5 looks pretty sad for dudes like Jokic. Could you imagine Jokic ever having a game as bad as 20/5/5?

And again i know Jokic doesn't average that number i put up. I just mean feels like if he wanted he could do that. Like if he wanted to average a triple double and with heavy points he could. Where 20/5/5 seems very hard for Jokic to do that poorly. He just cares about winning the game and not just being a stat chaser. Dudes great. Lebron ain't close to him.

Also Jordan could have averaged a triple double with heavy points too if he stat chased. I know the shoulda, woulda, coulda response coming. But we know he coulda and woulda. He shoulda just to show everyone how good he really was.

Rebounding and assists weren't a priority for Jordan as he had Rodman for rebounds, let Rodman do what he was brought there for, so not fight him for rebounds. Also Horace grant and Oakley for a time for rebounds. So rebpounds were covered so he let them cook there. And he didn't have dudes he trusted as much as himself to build his assists stats. Really he didn't have people to pass to that were legit weapons on offense besides the argument why would he pass if he's the best option. Where Lebron had Wade, Ray Allen, Kyrie, Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, Luka and others.

Jordan had Scottie only who wasn't really known for shooting. Scottie got his points by driving and fast breaks. But certainly not somone you could count on compared to the row of hall of fame'ers i listed Lebron had to pass to. No disrespect to Scottie, but Scottie's main greatness was defense. This just proves more why Jordan was so great. His team that some say was stacked actually wasn't. They all benefitted from playing with the gretaest player ever. If they didnt play with Jordan i suspect their careers might not have been as good. No disprespect to them, just sayin.

Just thinking about it now it's really crazy how much talent Lebron had to play with compared to Jordan. Even Chris Bosh who may go down as some help for Lebron. This dude was a superstar until he went to miami to play a lesser role.

Lebron's been handed the keys to Lamborghini's everywhere he goes while Jordan turned a yugo into a Rolls Royce!

Btw, Lebron's 1st team that people claim was bad. I bet they were better than what Jordan got to work with his whole career. He woulda turned them into a fleet of Rolls Royce's. Lebron's 1st team was not a yugo. They were at least a ford escort, prolly more like a cavalier.

Jordan was playing 1 on 5 his whole nba carreer and made it look easy. While Lebron asked for help. And he got alot of it.

Ray Allen another guy who was a great player. But what always happened when joining Lebron's teams you get lowered into a role player. Nothing against Lebron, but it's obvious so much talent came to him that guys roles went from lone superstars to third man role players on his teams. So many great players it's crazy. All superstars on their own right that accepted lesser roles. And yet not many titles and alot of losses. Love Lebron, love his teammates, but let's keep it real. Ray Allen soley responsible for one of the titles, as Lebron missed the possible game winner in game 6 vs spurs ball came off the rim into the the 2nd greatest shooter in league history in Ray Allen.

If back in Jordan's time it was the norm for the best players in the league joined forces Jordan woulda won every season, just a question if by 30 or 40 points per game in the playoffs, and finals

Could you imagine Ray Allen or any of the superstars Lebron played with got to play with Jordan?. I'm predicting more assists for Jordan lol.

If Ray Allen ddin't join the big 3 with Celtics, then joining the big 100 in miami, woulda been known more if he was on his own.

1 on 5 except the 96 and 98 teams had four hall of farmers and the 97 one had 5 (a geriatric Parish granted)

4 hall of famers? I'm not gonna look and guess but don't think i can guess 4. Rodman, Pippen. There were 2 other? really? That's kinda crazy and all 4 need to buy Jordan a beer, as all 4 prolly don't make the hall of fame without him. While Lebron's league of legends still make hall of fame and woulda had better careeres if they didn't cowtow to the so called king.

No disrespect to those guys, but we gotta keep it real. Really 4? Whoever the other 2 are that's crazy they made the hall of fame. Horace Grant? No disrespect to Horace but Oakley and Bill Cartright maybe had better careers. maybe Oakley is 1 of the other 2? But he played a big portion of his career with the Knicks. And i love Rodman but kinda crazy making the hall of fame when you literally couldn't score. Great rebounder though, and defense. But can't score anything and make the hall of fame is thanks to being on 2 great teams. Pistons and Bulls.

Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc.

Yeah Kukoc popped in my head. Little surprised he's in the hall of fame. Even though he prolly better then all of Jordan's teammates. Dude had some skills. Oakley was a better player than Rodman. Sorry Rodman, but we gotta keep it real. Both could rebound and play defense. But Oakley had a solid mid range jumnper. Oakley was a somewhat threat on offense if you gave him a shot. Oakley didn't make the hall of fame? Wow. Unfortunately for him he played the first half of his career with Jordan's terrible teams, and not his better teams. Or maybe not better teams, but where Jordan realized he was the matrix/neo and nobody else had a chance.

The reason that Lebron is NOT the most overrated player ever is because there's a whole group of players that are the most overrated players ever - this would be winning 2nd options (career 2nd options that win), aka Klay, Pippen, Pau, Parker, Manu, Dumars, Worthy, etc, etc.

By definition, these "2nd options" are carried, so it shouldn't be surprising that they need titles to start making All-NBA, and career 2nd options virtually never make All-NBA with losing teams... This contrasts with 1st options, who are often dominant enough to make All-NBA with losing teams, such as AD, Love, Lebron or MJ.. Essentially, 1st options don't need winning spotlight to be seen as good, while 2nd options do.. Accordingly, winning 2nd options are the most overrated group ever, and Pippen leads this group, aka the most overrated player of all time - no one was inflated by the winning spotlight more than him.. Klay isn't far behind as one of the most carried and overrated players ever.

LeBron couldn't even carry himself.
Call me when he has six championships.

Ouch, while i get your point, but you're doing some serious violence to some great players. Manu, Pau, and Klay especially. Those dudes could play. Klay was a two way player too. Very good defense. Pippen prolly the most overrated player. I hate hating on him but we gotta keep it real. If he didn't get drafted to Jordan this dude prolly has an alright career but we forget his name. Can kinda say same of all 2nd options you mentioned but they had a game if they never met their superstar 1 options. Especially Pau and Manu. Pau had 1 option superstar skills that tuneed into a number 2 with Kobe.

Anthony Davis had goat type talent. Got hurt too much, but had serious game.