TT squeezes IP vs LAG

First, in HH1 V calls a 3bet with 55 oop. V seems more like a fish than best LAG in the room.

Check raise on flop represents a strong draw or made straight: A2s-A5s, 56s, Adxd and Kdxd. I think hero is a slight dog on the flop with bad implied odds at 200 BB, but I can get behind a call of 100 for a pot of 415.

Hero’s hand on the turn is a bluff catcher. I’m folding and hope V didn’t have A3 or A4.

Been in this situation too many times to count. Got PTSD just reading it, plus it’s very late so I’m racking up a small loser.

Ah yes, the ol’ stuck like pig early, grind all night to get even, then a small winner, then a small loser, then medium loser, then lose it all back, maybe even some more extra, and then walk to the Mirage parking garage and drive back to your hotel with no sunglasses, Memorial Day 1994 Blues.

I don't like the cbet on wheel card flop. Think you have to shove or fold to the x/r.

On this board, he probably has some kind of combo draw. Once you call the flop raise, it may be a call on turn with pot odds and you are more ahead of most draws.

Classic Stupidbanana thread where we are always somehow playing 1/3 mega deep against a crusher LAG.

I think this line (small XR flop and big jam on turn) is bluff-heavy from an aggro player. I also think this guy 4bets some of the hands that beat you (including maybe A5s.) I might call here, but I am also just a huge station.

I also think you should go bigger pre FWIW.

Too small pre with the CO flat calling to open. Think we need to jam flop if we’re continuing. Don’t think we can fold on a turn brick after calling flop.

Yeah, it looks like a draw based on his betting pattern, the board, and player description. So it seems like an easy call on the turn as played.

I’m ok with the cbet on the flop. A cbet folds out Vs many broadways.

I’m super skeptical of bananas reads that to a call ott.

Grunch:

PRE - 3B bigger. At least $60, if not $75.

FLOP - we can't range bet this flop as the PFR in a multi-way 3BP. This board just doesn't connect with our range at all, and capable opponents can put us in difficult spots with a raise. If you want to bet, go smaller, like 1/4 pot, no more than $40-$45.

The fact that CO is still in the hand and largely uncapped makes me think V isn't going to be x/r'ing with very many bluffs. When there's three to a straight on board, and V can have 65s/A5s in range, I wouldn't like it, but I might find a very nitty fold here.

TURN - just fold.

Adding to the above - Banana, when you use smaller raise sizes pre, you let opponents get to the flop with wider ranges. That allows them to have some very strong hands on a lot of different board textures, and makes it harder for us to range them. Worse than that, it allows thinking players to leverage their wide ranges to max advantage.

If you're going to play that small-ball style, you have to be more willing to fold to aggression post flop. Additionally, you should be using smaller bet sizes post flop with that style, to help define opponents' ranges based on how they respond, and minimize your losses when you end up having to fold.

Using a smaller raise size pre and a bigger bet size post is courting disaster repeatedly.

The cbet is horrible, because this flop hits so many hands with draws etc., and you can only represent an overpair or a gutshot and overcards. You usually have something with a legitimate 3! hand, but never hit this flop hard. You are going to get raised a lot like you did.

Have to fold or shove to the flop raise. Calling flop and folding turn is awful. Could be better that calling turn, but you know he is shoving turn a lot and you only have 2 outs to improve.

Flop is a spew - Cold calling your 3b is likely 88+ or a big diamond hand like AdQd. Check back flop as your hand cannot survive a check raise.

Not sure why you are betting this flop - but as played i'm not calling. At best you are against a combo draw or 88 and 99 which seems optimistic.

Flop is misplayed both times. As played, you have to call turn shove.

Villain should usually have draw, but you are crushed if he cold called with JJ/QQ or a small pp 3-ways and made a set. He has to be pretty bad to have made 2 pair or a set. I don't think he plays JJ this way, as he is worried about a higher pp. He might x/r larger with a set for protection and set up a smaller turn shove.

It looks like he has a draw. He set up a pot sized turn shove to get a fold. If we give him AdQd, you are 60% to win on the turn and getting 2-1. So I don't see how you fold the turn on a blank as played.

Result:

Lol lag crusher. Villian cold called 3! With q8s and way overplayed his hand. You were 75% to win on the turn. It looked like a draw with his sizings.

It’s funny that villain takes a ‘brute force’ line with his semi-bluff. Y’all been talking me out of that move.

Personally, I call short stack all-ins often & am right - but there’s this all-in mystique where they always win if I put my stack on the line - and often in cruel ways.

Makes you wish you just ran it once.
Time to go home and get some rest.

Villain's semibluff line may be questionable because his draw is not that strong and the board is very wet. Hero also overplayed cbetting the wet low board.

Surprised people have such strong opinions against the flop cbet, cba simming atm but doubt it's a huge mistake. Probably a mix between checking and betting.

So much weird **** here not even sure where to begin, house lag who wins 10bb/100 at 1/3 but also plays up to 10/20 and mixes in PLO but then plays Q8dd like this.

Sounds more like an amateur LAG who plays different stakes. May often be successful at 1/3. How does OP know his win rate (or loss rate)?

Certainly much better sitting directly in position than directly OOP to this guy (the latter being a must avoid spot). However, it's also possible he blows us out of too many pots here, so my preference would be across the table from him.

I suck deep against decent LAGs, so I'll fully admit I might lean to a passive preflop flat here and just play a smaller and perhaps multiway pot in position here. My guess is 3betting is technically better... but my guess is you also better be exactly sure of what you're doing postflop (which I'm not as comfortable with this deep and with a hand that rarely flops well).

SPR is 4, we have an overpair, board is very drawy (even Ax likely isn't going anywhere), and we have a splashy image. Even though we offered 2 opponents about 20:1 IO preflop, you could argue that we're simply committed for stacks here. So I'd probably PSB the flop to shove most turns. Not really loving our smallish bet if we're feeling committed cuz I doubt we want to play this hand over 3 postflop streets when most runouts suck.

If we're feeling committed (which I think I do in this overall spot) then I think I jam over the flop check/raise.

And if feeling committed, I call this blank turn.

We really have to make a commitment plan (and perhaps even earlier like with preflop sizing).

ETA: Also surprised how much hate there is for the flop cbet. The SPR is 4 and our hand (which could easily be best) is extremely vulnerable. Checking back like AA in an SPR 10 pot would be fine here, but this spot here we should actually be fairly comfortable committing ASAP if we're playing preflop this way, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG

+1

If we have a complete solid handle on postflop in these spots, then sure, 3bet away. But if we feel we don't, then it's fine to take an alternate line preflop, imo. I find it quite interesting how many varied responses there were to this hand, which likely indicates not many of us have as solid a handle on postflop here as we may think (and I'll freely include myself in that group).

GcluelessdeepstacknoobG

I'd mind the c-bet less if we were HU vs a typical loose-passive who isn't going to x/r as a bluff very often. Multi-way, on this board, using a large size, with V as described, I think it's probably no bueno.

Participating in these discussions, I have become more tolerant that there’s more than one line to take. We sometimes talk like this is the way to go, and honestly, other lines work too.

It’s not a competition, it’s bouncing around ideas to consider & reflect upon.

You know what I hate:
When a pro stares at me after my big river bet. And then he says, still staring at me “you were behind my 3 tens on the turn, but you got there on the river didn’t you” and he folds and he’s right. Reading hands is a superpower!

But there’s room in this game to defy theory in the moment & make unconventional plays. The skill of being able to picture the likely turn, way back at the beginning of the hand.

Lines vs Theory
would be a good discussion. If I know that I can float Harold & take it away on the turn - I don’t really care that if in theory worse hands fold & better hands call. This is Harold, he’ll let me know if he caught a hand this time.