Player shoved and walked away
Hi. I run a small local poker club. We recently had a large tournament and one table of 6 had an issue when two players shoved. Both players have similar stacks but A definitely ahead. Flop comes down A, 4, 3. Player A shoves followed by player B. Player A shows pocket 4s so trips, player B shows a 53 so very small pair. Turn card is a J. At this point, player B swears a bit and pushes all his stack into the others pile - chips everywhere - they are very mixed. He then just walks away swearing. His cards did move further in when he pushed his stack from where he was sitting - though not a full-on muck action. Everyone has kind of assumed he has folded though it was never announced. Stupidly, we show The river which is of course a 2 which now gives B a straight! As TD, I regarded Bs actions as a dead hand and a fold - but of course he protests at this. Even if it was legit, what about the mixed chips. Thoughts?
8 Replies
Undisputable---B wins the pot. Then you can use your judgement to how to penalize B. I would give him a round penalty.
The hand is the hand and the bad behavior incident is handled seperately. You can't fold an all-in in a tournament. Hands should be tabled, then the board ran out no matter what--which is what happened. Further, nothing he did makes me think he intended to fold--cards are face up, he put chips in to make a call. He was a dick, but he didn't fold.
Technically as the tournament director you can penalize him by kicking him out of the tournament, but under no circumstance does A win that pot. A lost and is out no matter what.
Not exactly the same situation, but I can't help myself telling this one ...
Back in the 2017 WSOP I bagged in the Super Seniors. On day 2 waiting for the start, one of the players at my table recounted a strange happening the night before at his table very near the day's end. A short stack went all-in and a bigger stack called. The flop came down and the short stack took one look, shook his head, and darted out. Well, it turns out that ShortStack actually ended up winning the hand! Since he wasn't there, his stack was blinded down. Finally it got to hand-for-hand, and ShortStack was down to a single chip. Then came the announcement: "Congratulations, you're in the money!". Apparently the tournament officials had to trace Short Stack's table changes going backwards until they found his starting table. Then they were able to identify him and mailed him a check for the min-cash. Imagine his surprise when he received that check ...
I'm assuming this means A has more chips than B. I'm giving B double of the smallest that we think his chip stack was at plus the smallest of what we think the pot was, A gets everything else. I'm probably not going to surveillance. B is getting a one round penalty as well.
He is a question!
What if a player, first to act, goes all in and moves his stack over the line. Can he then stand up and walk away from the table? (in order to not give any physical tell to his opponent that still has to decide if he calls or folds).
What are your thoughts?
Is his hand still live? can the dealer turn over his hand if the opponent calls? etc?
Penalize the dealer for not counting the chips out before dealing the board.
Foreal though, you absolutely couldn't recount the action to figure out his stack? Im guessing he knocked over A's chips and mixed them up? Id give him only what we could absolutely be sure is his chips. If he only gets 50% of his double up then too ****ing bad. But I dont think its to out of line to call the hand dead since you cant identify his chips and its his fault.
Tough spot
No, you count them out at the end. Wastes time counting chips when you don't need to.
The pips on the sides/edges of poker chips are there so surveillance can count down stacks. It's also why you don't want to rotate your chips so all those pips line up.
Are you a dealer? I ask sincerely. I would generally agree with that line of thinking if the chip counts are obvious. But being that close in count makes me consider if dealers are doing it wrong.
I know that it is standard practice to do it after the hand but this is such a rare situation.
If the camera cant identify the amount id only do what is confirmed (if possible)
