RIP DAVID SKLANSKY
There aren't invites for the HOF. I don't think he has been nominated. He definitely belongs.That is an excellent obituary and typical NY Times styles, discusses what he did in terms of taking a mathematical approach to poker. He used his study of math and business at U. Penn and for actuarial exams.I looked for the NY Times obituary on Brunson, but I couldn't read it without p
nope, to become an actuary at that time you needed to pass a series of rigorous exams - while typically only degree holders would be able to pass them, that was not a gate to entrance
having a math professor father who would quiz you on theorems at the dinner table would obviously be helpful in that regard, but there's no way he could have gotten the job without passing the tests on his own merit
furthermore, this was when only 10% of americans had a college degree, today we're at nearly 40%, and not just that, he went to one of the best schools in the country - dropping out of upenn in 1967 is roughly the equivalent of graduating from a pretty decent college today in terms of job market potential
interestingly, you could see early on how his inability to work well with others - where every decision "against him" was due to the stupidity of others would be a common theme
Sklansky attended the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania for a year before leaving to become a professional gambler. He briefly took on a job as an actuary before embarking into poker. While on the job he discovered a faster way to do some of the calculations and took that discovery to his boss. The boss told him he could go ahead and do it that way if he wanted but wouldn’t pass on the information to the other workers. "In other words, I knew something no one else knew, but I got no recognition for it," Sklansky is quoted as saying in Al Alvarez's The Biggest Game in Town. "In poker, if you're better than anyone else, you make immediate money. If there's something I know about the game that the other person doesn't, and if he's not willing to learn or can't understand, then I take his money."
interestingly, you could see early on how his inability to work well with others - where every decision "against him" was due to the stupidity of others would be a common theme
I never had a problem when working with him. And I often would correct or challenge what he said. And he also gave me comments on books written by other authors, and again I never had any issue.
I think this is a myth based on some of his "nutty" posting that David made on this site. But it's not really true,
Also, since I have a couple of math degrees, it's possible that he respected me more than other people he dealt with. So, that may be why we had no issues when working together. It also may explain why we were able to work well together since the issues he had with other people who often didn't understand what he was talking about were not present with me.
As an example, Bayes Theorem was something that played a big part in David's thinking, and, of course, since I worked for years in the the field of mathematical statistics, this was something I understood.
nope, to become an actuary at that time you needed to pass a series of rigorous exams - while typically only degree holders would be able to pass them, that was not a gate to entrancehaving a math professor father who would quiz you on theorems at the dinner table would obviously be helpful in that regard, but there's no way he could have gotten the job without passing the test
you could get in with 3 exams and no college degree as late as mid 2000s if you were persistent - my sister got a job 5 days after graduation with only one exam passed
The details are hazy, but twenty odd years ago David made a couple posts about theoretically being rude even aggressively so towards potential coworkers & even bosses which he did in fact walk back (somewhat) after the reactions.
The details are hazy, but twenty odd years ago David made a couple posts about theoretically being rude even aggressively so towards potential coworkers & even bosses which he did in fact walk back (somewhat) after the reactions.
He wasn't rude to me. And as for co-workers or bosses, he didn't really have any.
I sometimes think that what he said was what he thought should theoretically be done in certain situations even though he was virtually never in those situations.
By the way, I don't tolerate someone being rude or aggressive towards me, and David knew this. On the other hand, I always felt he tolerated too much from certain critics. I would sometimes tell him to respond strongly but he usually didn't want to be bothered.
I never had a problem when working with him. And I often would correct or challenge what he said. And he also gave me comments on books written by other authors, and again I never had any issue.I think this is a myth based on some of his "nutty" posting that David made on this site. But it's not really true,Also, since I have a couple of math degrees, it's possible that he resp
that's pretty interesting mason, thank you for sharing
i think for many of us, we all see a little bit of david in ourselves that makes us a little bit uncomfortable
i definitely see quite a few parallels - whether imagined or not - between david and i in the workplace and how we both found ourselves above it all and would be better suited to pivot and gamble for a living instead - much of my early tech career is filled with cringe memories of meetings or emails where i confidently told the room they were all doing it wrong and where i eventually decided i was better off working for myself as a professional gambler than to deal with those morons
To be clear, David was musing about not returning hello’s in a corporate environment, or possibly (it’s hazy from long ago) even spitting on a military officer as a civilian contractor, and such & so on.
Certainly nothing he had ever done in the past, or was thinking of doing to 2p2 staff, and he did walk it back. Mostly.
But his repressed frustration & anger was very apparent and eloquently described in TBGIT. Chapter 9, “In appearance, Sklansky is like one of Dostoevsky’s intolerant student revolutionaries…By any normal standards, of course, Sklansky is an exceptionally good player, with endless powers of concentration.” (Hi, deuce!)
He also compared himself to Jack Nicklaus’ swing coach viz the Brunson crowd…and bragged about his “usually perfect” high school test scores. The NYT obituary excerpts are also here, it’s a must read.
I looked for the NY Times obituary on Brunson, but I couldn't read it without paying.
Try this link: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/15/sport...
I wanted to be a casualty actuary, because I didn't want to work mainly with life contingencies. However, what casualty actuaries mainly deal with is rate filings with state insurance departments, which always get declined initially and then get approved when someone visits with cash. So there is all this discussion and argument about problems with the rate filings, which is just a cover for something else. So they want people who are really smooth and good talkers to handle all that bs. So that is what you do with all the exams. I won't go into my bad experiences with it.
Being an actuary doing health or life insurance with a consulting firm is probably better. However, you need to pass the exams, but they want good talkers. Actuaries have a reputation for being very cold and boring, probably because of the nature of the work.
Regular means (meant) no declare, no qualifier.
The story is Chip Reese was going to go to Stanford MBA school, but stopped off in Vegas. He was able to crush Stud high-low regular, because opponents were overplaying high hands.
The story is Chip Reese was going to go to Stanford MBA school, but stopped off in Vegas. He was able to crush Stud high-low regular, because opponents were overplaying high hands.
The book Kings & Queens has the full story. He made the only steel wheel of his life in a 150-300 hi/lo game with Doyle Moss Puggy etc. It was capped every street and he never put in a raise. Won over $100K that weekend and that was the birth of the Gold Dust Twins. “For the next two years we couldn’t lose. Everything we touched turned to gold.”
That house he and Danny Robison owned was supposedly peak mid ‘70s.
Mat, I wish you solace and resolution at what must be a difficult time for you. You are, and have alway been, a mensch.
I was a poster on 2+2 back in the day. I got close with David in a 2+2 sense from interaction on a couple of fora. By close, I mean only via interaction on the site. I did not really know David personally, I beieve I only met him twice. When the Brandi stuff apparently blew up on another forum, David privately asked me for a favor. Being maginal to the poker "world" I asked him to explain and I would do what I could to help him. He then asked me to lie for him because "everyone will believe you." I then researched the situation and told David I would not do it and I left 2+2, with only occasional posts in the ensuing years/decades.
I did not know--or had forgetten--that Brandi had killed herself until I heard of David's passing and listened to Matt Berkey's elucidation. I was shocked by David's suggestion that she kill herself. I still am.
All of us have things in our past that we are ashamed of and that we wish we had handled differently. When someone passes away, we tend to reflect on the good and the bad. I judge people by the goodness of the good and on how bad the badness was. I understand David's intelligence and how he helped so many of us be better poker players and better thinkers overall. But I tend to agree with Mat: he was a dick. And a real bad dick. To me, that outweighs his contributions. By a lot. But that is just my take, fwiw.
I wish I could empathize with the title of this thread. But I cannot. I wish I had done something other than just refuse and disappear. But I did not. There is a tendency to put people on a pedestal when they leave us. Understandable. But not deserved, imho, in this case.
As an example, Bayes Theorem was something that played a big part in David's thinking, and, of course, since I worked for years in the the field of mathematical statistics, this was something I understood.
I'm a lot like David was in that I also only listen to people who understand Bayes Theorem. It doesn't always work out, but I've never seen any reason to change.
I wanted to be a casualty actuary, because I didn't want to work mainly with life contingencies. However, what casualty actuaries mainly deal with is rate filings with state insurance departments, which always get declined initially and then get approved when someone visits with cash. So there is all this discussion and argument about problems with the rate filings, which is ju
I just spent 30 years in the insurance business and worked frequently with insurance actuaries. A common joke was "How can you spot an extroverted actuary? When he talks to you, he stares at your shoes instead of his own."
Mat, I wish you solace and resolution at what must be a difficult time for you. You are, and have alway been, a mensch.I was a poster on 2+2 back in the day. I got close with David in a 2+2 sense from interaction on a couple of fora. By close, I mean only via interaction on the site. I did not really know David personally, I beieve I only met him twice. When the Brandi stuff ap
Only a pathetic person would come on here, not use his real name and attack a dead person. Obviously you're not a mensch.
Only a pathetic person would come on here, not use his real name and attack a dead person. Obviously you're not a mensch.
In a world of awkward takes from you, this might be the oddest. It's a forum. Most of us are anonymous.... and nothing about the post felt like an attack. It felt like a pretty mild and tempered confession and conscience clearing.... and in a place that also felt fairly appropriate given the texture of the thread overall and the conversations re: David's clearly complex legacy.
I played with David a lot over the years.
I considered myself neither fortunate nor unfortunate.
The conversations were always more interesting when he was at the table for the random half hour that he would stop in with his seat locking penny or dime, barely play a hand, walk around interminably and ultimately leave.
I, personally, like so many others, wore out my copies of Theory of Poker and Getting The Best of It (in my early days playing). And even as a relatively smart and motivated person looking to succeed in this strange industry, I absolutely wouldn't have been half of the thinker/general decision maker/gambler/poker player/investor etc. that I was when I started without access to those texts.
As time moved on and my exposure to David increased, I recognized him for what I believe he was.... extremely intelligent and too narrow in scope. But even the side of him that I believe was limited also helped me further define my perspective and how I wanted to approach things differently.
I mourn his passing because he was part of my universe and when he died a part of what I experienced in my life went with him.... and reminded me that time passes far too quickly.
Regular means (meant) no declare, no qualifier.
The story is Chip Reese was going to go to Stanford MBA school, but stopped off in Vegas. He was able to crush Stud high-low regular, because opponents were overplaying high hands.
FYI “Stud Split” was first played at the 1976 WSOP, switched to 8OB in 1999. Thanks, rjen.
In his book Geeking, Grifting and Gambling Through Las Vegas he states that he refused invites to be in the Poker HOF because many inductees were cheaters. He explicitly names Chip Reese.
He backed off the Chip Reese allegation a bit in this thread:
@George fair enough, thanks for pointing that out to me. Appreciated.
@dumass
“ I mourn his passing because he was part of my universe and when he died a part of what I experienced in my life went with him.... and reminded me that time passes far too quickly.”
Well stated.
I just spent 30 years in the insurance business and worked frequently with insurance actuaries. A common joke was "How can you spot an extroverted actuary? When he talks to you, he stares at your shoes instead of his own."
My experience was that for casualty actuaries, they were looking for people who were smooth with sales skills, because a big part of the job was discussions with state insurance departments.
I had a bad experience with it, and might have fit in better as a life / health actuary.
In any case, it requires a certain personality type, and that might have been part of Sklansky's issue with it.
Recalled this David Sklansky story today. Mid 80s time frame. I had just started taking poker seriously after reading David’s book Holdem Poker (that’s another story). I was pretty much a degan previous to that but had given all that up. Being a rookie more or less at poker, I was in Vegas playing low limit games. I heard about LHE at the Nugget so went there to see what was going on. There David was sitting at a 9 handed 20-40 LHE table. Also seated at the table was Don Zewin a pretty successful player back in the day. Also seated at the table was Harry Belafonte. I saw David win a pretty big pot where he was up against Zewin. David had raised pre flop, got some callers. On the turn it got to be Zewin & David heads up with David leading. David led out on the river again, Zewan called. David won the pot by spiking a 2 outer on the river to his underpair. Zewin didn’t say anything but you could see he was really frustrated. Zewin was in the next pot played and won. David made a comment along the lines to Zewin that in the many times they had sat in the same game that he was surprised Zewin played those rags. Zewin said he was steaming after David put that beat on him. It was clear that they were regulars in the LHE games of that size. A few hands later David won a pot against Belafonte. One of the players at the table said Harry he wrote a book about Hold’em but don’t bother to read it, it isn’t any good. David got a little chuckle out of that.
Recalled this David Sklansky story today. Mid 80s time frame. I had just started taking poker seriously after reading David’s book Holdem Poker (that’s another story). I was pretty much a degan previous to that but had given all that up. Being a rookie more or less at poker, I was in Vegas playing low limit games. I heard about LHE at the Nugget so went there to see what was go
Cool story bro.
