Unusual spot for me - first hand at the table w AJo
1/3 NLHE 7 handed
Game is a mixed bag late overnight 2am. We've just shown up sharp and are enjoying these late overnight games where there's more tilt in the room and more money to win. Game is about to break it seems as people are standing up and sitting down. This is our first hand dealt in. Game is deep and feels gambly. CO. 500$.
V - Complete unknown early 30s white collar looking white guy. Seems to know one of the rooms top winning TAGs (who is trying to play semi-pro up to 10/20 for context). No idea who is or how he plays. Covers by a lot. HJ.
----
BTN TAG straddles, V limps HJ, A♥ J♦ in CO to 25, BTN folds, V calls. HU IP.
Flop 50 - A♠ 8♥ 4♥
check, H b40, V x/r to 100, H calls
Turn 250 (375 back) - 5♥
V checks....
Bet 100
When I see this line it’s like a stab
Using the powerful x/r to first take it down or else find out opponent’s strength early. They would love a free card. My guess, they fold if you bet.
The thought process is that this early raise will save me money trying to get to showdown, because my opponent will slow down. Having the Ah gives you a chance at the nuts and villain may have a worse ace. Keep firing
I wouldn't go quite that big on the flop. Want to be a little ambiguous that you could just be cbetting this flop.
I would check back the turn. No point is going for value or bluffing after he x/red. He could have a set or aces up and is scared on the flush. Reevaluate the river, based on card and action.
Check it back. Getting xjammed on here is such a disaster.
In the OP you wrote b40.. did you mean bet 40% of the pot ($20)? If so, I would strongly consider folding against the big XR.
Bet 30 on the flop. AP, what does V raise that you beat? Because hero has Ah, there are few flush draws, no open ended straight draws, and maybe A2s-ATs. Do you think V open limps AJo+? I’m calling and proceeding cautiously.
Check back. I’m happy to get to showdown with TPGK.
I'm cool with preflop.
The SPR is ~10 so I would never be comfortable playing for stacks with just TPmehK. So with that in mind, I'm looking to get to showdown for a reasonable price while not getting stacks involved. Against unknowns who I don't really know much about, plus with us blocking a lot of the flush draws, I'd lean to checking back the flop. Otherwise, if I'm betting then I'm betting to fold. Bet/calling starts putting stacks in play which is the last thing I want. ETA: Also just noticed the hugeness of our flop bet, which is even more reason to fold to the check/raise, imo.
I'm checking back the turn as played. He could easily have us beat on the flop and yet hates this turn card (but could still be unlikely to fold with the stronger part of his range). It is very often us that is cool with the free card here, imo.
We'll have a decision to make on the river on a blank, probably calling a reasonable bet or making a small one ourselves if checked to. Prolly going for the gold making the nuts against an unknown and I'm assuming giving off our typical banana vibe.
GcluelessbananavibenoobG
I hope it doesn't seem like I'm picking on you (does it? I don't intend it to be), but this is a recurring theme in all of your posts that I always seem to return to, so...
Do we want our opponent to fold the turn with the hand we have if our guess is that he will fold if we bet?
Gjusttryingtosortoutyourthoughtprocess,nothatin'G
I hope it doesn't seem like I'm picking on you (does it? I don't intend it to be), but this is a recurring theme in all of your posts that I always seem to return to, so...
Do we want our opponent to fold the turn with the hand we have if our guess is that he will fold if we bet?
Gjusttryingtosortoutyourthoughtprocess,nothatin'G
I guess I still don’t know what you’re saying. I look at lines that recur and in my opinion the guy is weak, so why give him a FreeCard. He might be hesitating cause the flush came in.
I don’t feel picked on, just don’t understand your position often, though I think our style is similar. I’m kinda crushing, so it’s hard to think I’m screwing up as much as you seem to think.
I guess I still don’t know what you’re saying. I look at lines that recur and in my opinion the guy is weak, so why give him a FreeCard.
If we think he's going to fold to a turn bet, and with us also having the nut flush draw (which greatly protects against any of his outs), what would your guesstimate be of our equity at this point? Fairly massive, right? So do we want him to fold with our massive equity when we suspect he has a very weak hand that can't stand much heat? Or would we rather attempt to squeeze one more bet out of him (by having him pay off a curious river bet or induce a bluff)?
I just seems to be a lot of "taking down the pot with aggression versus a weak hand" versus "ekeing out value" thinking, imo.
Gnothatin',justsayin'G
Getting check raised off our big equity would be a disaster.
Very clear check back.
curious - whats the worst ace you cbet this flop with? Im guessing anything < AJ should be checked back.
curious - whats the worst ace you cbet this flop with? Im guessing anything < AJ should be checked back.
I would in theory cbet all the aces I open raise in the CO, so ATs-A9s. I’d probably in practice check A7s-A5s, looking to check raise if they are two hearts. You’re getting only one street of value with any medium or low ace. I am mostly folding ATo in the CO preflop.
I would in theory cbet all the aces I open raise in the CO, so ATs-A9s. I’d probably in practice check A7s-A5s, looking to check raise if they are two hearts. You’re getting only one street of value with any medium or low ace. I am mostly folding ATo in the CO preflop.
folding ATo pre in CO seems insanely nitty to me. what is your live vpip, like 10%?
if you have a nit image i think you can make an argument for checking back anything worse than AK on the flop, because no worse aces will call your raise pf besides AQ.
very very surprised more people arent saying to bet smaller on flop
1/3 or even 1/2 is fine, that x/r sseems pretty strong becuase a thinking player shoud know villains at low stake arent gonna fold TPGK hereright
Check it back. Getting xjammed on here is such a disaster.
In the OP you wrote b40.. did you mean bet 40% of the pot ($20)? If so, I would strongly consider folding against the big XR.
No I bet 40 as in 40$ into 50$, V x/raised 2.5x to 100$
Later HH to possibly influence your decision (happened after this hand):
Couple limps no straddle, V opens BTN to 20, H in SB to 85 with K♦ 9♦, only V calls, HU OOP. Flop 9♥ 7♥ 3♣ check check, turn 6♦ H bets 2/3rds pot, V calls, River 9♠ H jams 1.2x pot. V folds. No discussion of what we had.
This is probably a call in theory but in reality I would fold.
AJ is a bluff catcher here (like he doesn’t have AT in this line) and wtf is he bluffing with? People aren’t going to show up with KhQx or 5s4s or whatever. And if they do, congratulations on a good bluff.
FWIW I would call against a smaller bet and hope to beat worse AX.
Grunch:
PRE - seems okay. But we could raise bigger.
FLOP - c-bet smaller, like $20. As played, I don't think we should fold to the small x/r, and I don't see the point in 3B'ing, so just call.
TURN - interesting decision point. I could see arguments for checking back, betting small, and betting big. Think I'd like to bet small, like $75-$100.
V's line doesn't make a ton of sense. I'd guess he flopped 2P/set that hates the turn card, or he's got AX maybe with a heart. I'd think 2P/sets would x/r bigger, but we c-bet kinda big, so it's harder to range him.
When we get here this way, I'd want to take back control of the betting, with a goal of just getting to showdown, unless we improve to the nuts.
I've told you before, the small raise pre, big c-bet flop line is making your post flop decisions more difficult.
I like the turn check back and now I just fold.
Flop check/raises, especially against a large sizing, are heavily weighted towards hands that can beat AJ (which is why I simply fold the flop if betting). Looks like he simply got massively scared of the flush on the turn, and now likely boated up on the river. You really have enough people in your pool capable of running a big overbet bluff / overvalued (lol AT) hand here? Nothing in the other HH suggests this guy is doing that.
GcluelessNLnoobG
Interesting thread
Several YouTube videos declare that when the turn checks thru, bluff the river. I wonder if villain saw one of them.
