1/3 8h Getting Value from Flopped Flush
Think it was played well, see what you think.
UTG (400) limps
MP (250) limps
H-CO (400) raises 20 with 5h6h
B (350) calls
BB
Tricky hand once you get to the turn. Not sure about turn sizing, there shouldn't be many 9x and once it goes multiway it's hard to imagine getting much value from worse hands. I think turn sizing is OK. Ditto river, nobody has raised which is a good thing, I don't fancy check-calling and even a small bet will value-own yourself a lot but there are still hands out there to get some value from. Awkward stack sizes. River is sort of blocky which feels a decent option. Not sure, this hand quite hard to navigate, ultimately you're only 130BB deep with a flush so can't go far wrong, I think it's OK overall.
You think Button folds his TPGK + flush draw?
I think one of the biggest benefits of raising preflop (which don't outweigh the downsides, imo) is that we're able to put stacks trivially in play postflop when we do make a hand (something that would be very difficult to do in a limped pot). So here we setup a maximum SPR of 4 where it is trivial to gets stacks in... and yet we didn't. So I think we lost huge value due to our postflop sizing.
Against the Button and his TPGK + flush draw, the SPR was only a measly 3.3. And yet we somehow let him keep almost 25% of his stack. Just a 1/2 PSB on the flop of $50 into $100 creates a HU $200 pot with him only having $280 left. Another 1/2 PSB of $100 into $200 on the turn would leave him with just $180 on the river in a $400 pot. Heck, we still had an opportunity to correct our poor flop/turn sizing on the river here as he only has $205 left in a $510 pot. The difference in calling frequency between a $125 bet and a $205 bet is going to be negligible.
Even looking at this from an IO point of view, we got ourselves in one of the best postflop spots we could get ourselves in, and yet only made 12.5:1 against the Button postflop. Admittedly we made another 8:1 in collateral damages from others, but my guess is one of those others was holding the nut flush draw and would have gladly put in much more money on flop/turn.
IMO, we tried to target very weak hands (that are kinda unlikely to continue multiway almost regardless of sizing) instead of targeting the hands that were very likely to continue for gobs.
GimoG
IMO, we tried to target very weak hands (that are kinda unlikely to continue multiway almost regardless of sizing) instead of targeting the hands that were very likely to continue for gobs.
On a monotone board most hands are weak hands. The ones which are strong-but-not-as-strong-as-us all made a boat on the turn. You're literally targeting weak Aces and the nut flush draw which is just a naked offsuit Kx. Even a drooling buffoon can see that a random top pair is no good on a paired flush board facing big bets on the flop and beyond. We might be happy to play for stacks in a vacuum, but what hands will our opponents get stacks in with that are worse than a baby flush?
On a monotone board most hands are weak hands. The ones which are strong-but-not-as-strong-as-us all made a boat on the turn. You're literally targeting weak Aces and the nut flush draw which is just a naked offsuit Kx. Even a drooling buffoon can see that a random top pair is no good on a paired flush board facing big bets on the flop and beyond. We might be happy to play for
I'll fully admit I misread the hand a bit... I thought the river paired the board, not the turn. My bad.
Still, my main point is our flop/turn sizing should be such that it is trivial to get stacks in by the river. Anyone who is managing to call $35 on the flop is probably going to call $50, and we should mostly be targeting hands who are willing to call larger sizing (there are probably going to be more big Ax in the hand than small Ax thanks to the preflop raise, and no one with a big heart is folding early streets) rather than attempt to target weaker hands that are probably going to fold to almost any sizing anyways (i.e. it's not as if a weaker sizing somehow got 33 nor JTdd to continue here).
GcluelessNLnoobG
I just meant in general my image is so tight that when I throw 75 out there pre, players are folding pretty strong hands.
Appreciate the advice, but I will get folds if I get too aggressive - see image above
This is a dangerous progression when another heart ruins us
I just meant in general my image is so tight that when I throw 75 out there pre, players are folding pretty strong hands.
As one who has an image probably even tighter than yours, I really do get this. I do.
But no one is folding a big Ax to one big bet, nor is anyone folding a big heart to one big bet. And meanwhile it is actually sort of difficult for anyone to continue with extremely weak hands on this type of board multiway to any sizing.
Anyhoo, I've been outvoted but that's my thoughts.
GcluelessoutofstepwiththeforumnoobG
As one who has an image probably even tighter than yours, I really do get this. I do.But no one is folding a big Ax to one big bet, nor is anyone folding a big heart to one big bet. And meanwhile it is actually sort of difficult for anyone to continue with extremely weak hands on this type of board multiway to any sizing.Anyhoo, I've been outvoted but that's my thoughts.Gclue
You are never outvoted - I listen to everything you say. Agree that going bigger has merit as draws will likely still come along.
I really don’t know how people perceive monotone boards. Personally, I’m highly likely to get away from these boards as well as paired boards unless I hit it hard.
So I don’t really know if people ignore the flush because it’s so unlikely and continue with their mediocre hands or they check out like I do.
