[extracted] New(?) 9-11 stuff
KSM got a plea deal. The guy who supposedly masterminded the 9/11 attacks is not getting the death penalty.
If you still
Ok.
35 miles surface to surface disproves Earth curve.
The only person to address this is 57 on red who lies about surface to surface capability.
I don't understand this. Why does it disprove earth curve? Airplanes fly more than 35 miles and they don't disprove Earth curve, do they? They go up in the air in one place and land in another after travelling hundreds or thousands of miles.
I don't understand this. Why does it disprove earth curve? Airplanes fly more than 35 miles and they don't disprove Earth curve, do they? They go up in the air in one place and land in another after travelling hundreds or thousands of miles.
Because you don't pay attention.
Target is painted i.e. illuminated with a radio frequency signal that requires line of sight from the platform to target. Once established, the signal must be maintained during flight.
Accounting for platform and target height, a simple matter as these are two ships, it is impossible to get and maintain line of sight with hundreds of feet of Earth bulge in the way, for a range of 35 miles. This is the minimum range. (I know you struggle with what "range" means. Range is the horizontal [oops] distance. It is a minimum of 35 miles, most probably more than this).
This is all documented above.
So there we have it. Another proof of this stationary and flat plane.
Ok, thanks, I get the radio thing now.
I am not struggling with what "range" means. I am struggling with what "minimum range" means. If the minimum range is 35 miles, does that mean I can't shoot at a ship that is closer than 35 miles? If so, why?
Because you don't pay attention.Target is painted i.e. illuminated with a radio frequency signal that requires line of sight from the platform to target. Once established, the signal must be maintained during flight.Accounting for platform and target height, a simple matter as these are two ships, it is impossible to get and maintain line of sight with hundreds of feet of Earth
The shape of th earth isnt a factor here with missiles or airplanes like this. Airplanes lose radar all the time but they still fly off their own pre planned navigation for the flight.
Missiles are guided. Some of them home in. Neither care what shape the earth is in the same way a airplane would fly 12 hours with no radar.
Continued swerve of the point, noted.
The shape of th earth isnt a factor here with missiles or airplanes like this. Airplanes lose radar all the time but they still fly off their own pre planned navigation for the flight.
Missiles are guided. Some of them home in. Neither care what shape the earth is in the same way a airplane would fly 12 hours with no radar.
You have not read the above, nor my summary just here.
The missiles REQUIRE line of sight. Even 57 on red knows this. His objection is that they cannot operate surface to surface. He is wrong. I have shown this.
Read the links above.
The minimum range is the minimum range.
Do you need each term defining individually?
Continued swerve noted.
The minimum range is the minimum range.
Do you need each term defining individually?
No, my question was why there is a minimum range, as I don't know anything about these things. There is no minimum range for a bullet or an arrow, it can hit something as soon as it is fired. Why is there a minimum range for this weapon? Or, I guess to paraphrase the question, why is the minimum range not zero?
You have not read the above, nor my summary just here.
The missiles REQUIRE line of sight. Even 57 on red knows this. His objection is that they cannot operate surface to surface. He is wrong. I have shown this.
Read the links above.
Okay, I get your argument. A typical ship isn't getting line of sight for a surface target 35 miles away.
But the 35-mile range has nothing to do with the shape of the Earth. So even if the same missile were launched from an F-35, its basic effective range would remain in the same general class, because that range is determined by the missile’s own capabilities - not how high the ships mast is or whether the target is sitting on a mountain.
Essentially, on a flat earth the missile is still capped at 35 miles
It is funny that nothing supports this 35 mile limit.
Ai
Surface-to-surface missiles generally do not have a standard "35-mile minimum limit," as their range varies based on type (ballistic vs. cruise), intended mission, and guidance system. While many tactical systems operate within or beyond this range, technical limitations can sometimes create minimum engagement distances, often much shorter than 35 miles, or very long ranges for strategic weapons
The 35-mile (approximately 50-60 km) minimum range for many surface-to-surface missiles is driven by tactical requirements to operate beyond the immediate horizon, engineering constraints that prevent reliable guidance at extremely short distances, and the need for a "no-escape zone" against moving targets.
Quora
Quora
+2
Key bases for this minimum include:
Horizon and Target Acquisition: For surface-to-surface anti-ship missiles, the minimum range is often defined by the radar horizon. A 35-40 mile range allows the launching platform to detect, track, and engage targets just over the horizon while remaining relatively safe from direct counter-battery fire.
Kinematic and Guidance Limits: Ballistic missiles must follow a specific trajectory to maintain stability. If a missile is forced to hit a target at too close a range, it requires a suppressed trajectory that can cause it to break up or fail to properly guide to the target.
No-Escape Zone (NEZ): The 35km-40km range is frequently cited as the threshold for effective engagement against maneuvering targets (such as in anti-air or anti-ship roles), where the missile retains enough fuel and speed to pursue a target, making evasion nearly impossible.
Strategic vs. Tactical Distinction: This range acts as a threshold between tactical battlefield weapons (like artillery-guided rockets) and true tactical ballistic missiles, with longer ranges required for theater-level engagement.
Global Security.org
Global Security.org
+4
While some systems, particularly modern surface-to-air systems like the S-400, can have specific missiles in their arsenal that function within this range, 35+ miles is generally the standard operating envelope for ensuring high-probability hits on significant targets.
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+1
So, this is not actually dispositive proof that the Earth is flat, then. Shame, I really had high hopes this time.
Sane person: If I understand this correctly, it proves that the Earth is flat and there has been a worldwide conspiracy to hide this fact from the majority of the populace for centuries and actively promote a round Earth hoax. So, I probably don't understand this correctly.
Billy: Same thought process, opposite conclusion.
The ESSM system's maximum range is normally cited as 50km (31 miles), though it is technically classified. This maximum, only likely to be obtainable against high-angle targets (because surface radar is limited by the curve of the Earth), is dictated by the burn time of the missile's rocket motor and the ballistic travel of the missile after burnout on a given trajectory (the flatter, the shorter).
Minimum range is partly to do with missile performance in various respects but is essentially dictated by the minimum time to detect, engage, launch and track, which is a few seconds. This will mean not-many miles, given the likely approach speed of the system's targets (principally anti-ship missiles), but it's a point-defence system.
Okay, I get your argument. A typical ship isn't getting line of sight for a surface target 35 miles away.But the 35-mile range has nothing to do with the shape of the Earth. So even if the same missile were launched from an F-35, its basic effective range would remain in the same general class, because that range is determined by the missile’s own capabilities - not how high th
Please, read the sea sparrow wiki page and the links the page references.
The target has to be illuminated with a line of sight radar signal from the platform where the missile is launched from. This is a continuous signal or else the targetting fails. Only over a flat surface can this be achieved for a 35 mile range.
It is really quite simple.
Rebuttals thus far:
1. Radio silence.
2. Ignoring explicit surface to surface functionality.
3. General trolling.
4. Wilful ignorance of the information presented.
The ESSM system's maximum range is normally cited as 50km (31 miles), though it is technically classified. This maximum, only likely to be obtainable against high-angle targets (because surface radar is limited by the curve of the Earth), is dictated by the burn time of the missile's rocket motor and the ballistic travel of the missile after burnout on a given trajectory (the f
Thank you, some sense finally.
The rebuttal is that the weapon does not work as advertised, i.e. it is useless against targets "over the horizon" and cannot achieve anywhere near the stated range.
The dichotomy is thus:
1. Raytheon has been lying about its wares.
2. Earth is flat.
You will never publicly agree to point 2. You are therefore committed to point 1, making you a very silly conspiritard.
Sane person: If I understand this correctly, it proves that the Earth is flat and there has been a worldwide conspiracy to hide this fact from the majority of the populace for centuries and actively promote a round Earth hoax. So, I probably don't understand this correctly.
Billy: Same thought process, opposite conclusion.
A d2 reset. How tiresome.
It is funny that nothing supports this 35 mile limit.AiSurface-to-surface missiles generally do not have a standard "35-mile minimum limit," as their range varies based on type (ballistic vs. cruise), intended mission, and guidance system. While many tactical systems operate within or beyond this range, technical limitations can sometimes create minimum engagement distances, of
Back in the day (a week ago) y'all put in minimal effort frantically googling.
Now we just cut and paste tosh with literally no effort.
The minimum range is stated on the wiki page (original source raytheon) as 27 nautical miles i.e. 31 miles. Note the plus sign. This means its actual range is further than 31 miles.
Note the guidance system for block 1. The flat earth proof applies only to block 1. Read up on this guidance system. LINE OF SIGHT radar signal. No earth curve or else it does not work.
The minimum range is stated on the wiki page (original source raytheon) as 27 nautical miles i.e. 31 miles. Note the plus sign. This means its actual range is further than 31 miles.Note the guidance system for block 1. The flat earth proof applies only to block 1. Read up on this guidance system. LINE OF SIGHT radar signal. No earth curve or else it does not work.
Billy, you posted a datalink-guided missile - literally designed to not require continuous line of sight.
...but again, range is irrelevant here.
