AA vs 2 Splashy Fish
1/3
V1: 30 something splashy fish. Sat down and immediately ordered a beer with V2. Primarily calling both pre-flop and post, not very aggressive.
V2: Friend of V1. Ordered a beer as well. Limp calling into many pots. Clearly there for a good time and to get involved in pots, again seems like a station.
H: Playing noticeably tight. V2 noticed it took about 30 minutes for me to play my first hand with him at the table and commented on it.
Relevant HH
HH1:
V1 limps from EP, V2 limps as well, MP raise 15, BB calls, V1 calls, V2 calls.
Flop (60ish) JT5r, BB x, V1 donk 25, V2 call, BB all in for about 175. V1 calls, V2 calls. V1 and V2 clearly agreed to check it down after the flop.
BB shows JTo, V1 AJo, V2 55, V2 scoops.
HH2:
H comes back from bathroom to see V2 call down QQ on A high board to a large river bet, saying "I have queens, you know I'm going to call."
OTTH:
V1 limps from EP, V2 limps from EP, CO limps. H (~450 effective) raise to $25 on the BTN with AsAc. All call.
Flop: 8h4h2d
V1 leads for $25, V2 calls, CO folds, H raise to $100. V1 folds, V2 calls.
Turn Kh.
On this turn what range do you put V2 on? How should we proceed on this card?
4 Replies
1/3V1: 30 something splashy fish. Sat down and immediately ordered a beer with V2. Primarily calling both pre-flop and post, not very aggressive.V2: Friend of V1. Ordered a beer as well. Limp calling into many pots. Clearly there for a good time and to get involved in pots, again seems like a station.H: Playing noticeably tight. V2 noticed it took about 30 minutes for me to pla
Grunch:
PRE - raise bigger. Much bigger. Drunk fish don't see the flop for less than $45 if I'm in your spot.
They don't limp from EP to fold.
FLOP - raise bigger. At least $150. I might make it $175 or $200.
TURN - did V check to you?
From pre, they have ATC. On trhe flop, I'm giving them draws, pairs, 2P, sets, whatever. Who knows with these guys?
On the turn, the range is the same. Bet bigger on prior streets so we can just jam all turns.
As played, I probably still jam. He has a super wide range.
Alternatively check back and call all rivers that don't put another heart on the board.
I don’t think you consider the flush against one player, although there’s a small chance they have it. The call with queens earlier suggests we should bet big, but the king could be a scare card for villain.
I think we have a pot-sized bet left in our stack, but I highly doubt villain calls a jam. Not having the Ah makes us vulnerable if another heart comes.
Assuming villain checked
Bet 100 and shove the rest of it on any non heart river. I think we’re ahead and might get called. Obviously, if another heart comes we’re hoping to check back the river.
The problem with checking the turn is that it might embolden villain and you’re losing value.
If villain donk shoves the river (no matter the card) you don’t know if he’s strong or making a move.
With a shorter stack (such as a $200 one that I often sit on) then preflop is trivial. At larger stacks in looser games then it is much more difficult. Even with our larger sizing we still went 4ways, which cuts down the SPR considerably to just ~4... which means stacks can go in trivially postflop... and yet everyone got fairly decent IO of 18+:1 preflop. This is why I like a LRR method where I can setup either a very small SPR offering horrendous IO or a very larger SPR where I can just play postflop poker. Tricky spot. If blinds are aggro could consider a deep overlimp on the Button. If any limpers are LRRs could consider a lol minraise to induce. Could also just make it much larger and hope for action. Could also make it much smaller and just aim for a better multiway SPR. Prolly best to aim for a result that you feel you thrive in.
On the flop, we have to ask ourselves do we feel comfortable stacking off? In an SPR of 4, against villains who seems to perhaps be willing to stack off with worse, on a drawy board, that answer may be yes. In which case a raise to setup a turn jam could be fine.
Pretty terrible turn card as the main draw got there, as well as a straight draw, plus it's possible we were behind on the flop. I'd check it back and then only consider calling a very small river bet, and possibly consider bluffing a fourth heart if checked to.
GcluelessNLnoobG
Preflop and flop are fine. You could maybe go a pinch larger with either, especially preflop seems too small.
On this turn V2 probably has something like QQ-99, 8x, maybe smaller pairs 66-55, flush draws, 53s, 42s, sets. Unless we have information that this guy just donates money with random overcards which I'm not going to assume.
The King probably doesn't help him unless it's to a flush, but from his point of view even a whale can see that it might help your AK. You won't more value out of the smaller pairs unless they have a heart in them, and 8x probably won't pay you any more. A made flush is a very real possibility. Look, if you think he calls down with any old pair without a heart then fill your boots but I'm not seeing it. If that's the case then you have to evaluate how many random suited hands he calls with preflop to try and work out how many made flushes he has. I don't see him having any naked flush draws unless they're also straight draws.
