China

ghost cities don't exist as a permanent phenomenon. every one you've read about is a journalist showing up with a camera five years before the city was supposed to fill in and acting shocked that it hasn't yet

the equivalent would be flying a news crew to a half built suburb in phoenix in 1985, filming the empty streets, and running a story about the death of arizona

or going to a half built stadium with another 6 months of construction planned and saying "there's no way they could play the superbowl here tomorrow!"

the ones western media all made famous a decade ago are... populated now. the timeline was always 15 to 20 years from breaking ground to full occupancy. that's how planned urbanization works when you're building ahead of the migration instead of chasing it - i know it's an amazing concept of having competent government being ready for stuff in the future instead of having social security at the edge of being insolvent and pushing along more debt because it'll become a future generations problem... i know it's weird to consider that others in the world have governments which plan for the future and sometimes build a little bit faster than was necessary in order to be prepared

the "millions of incomplete but paid for units" framing is worth engaging seriously, because that's horrific management from specific developers which are now basically insolvent - but those problems are not due to "ghost cities"

those are two different stories being mashed into one because they both have chinese real estate in the headline - you of all people should know the difference

You really believe they are full occupancy in those cities made famous a decade ago? there are +100M purchased and completed units that buyers
purchased with the sole intent of holding as a store of wealth. Also let me remind you that China's official population repots an accelerating population LOSS.
Peaked in 2022. and declining 3 years in a row at an accelerating rate each year. (Estimated loss in 2035 is 5million population decline)

The way I see it, there are THREE types of ghost cities now. The first is caused by developers going bankrupt, not the other way around. (ie. Ghost cities do NOT cause bankruptcy)
Maybe lets change the name to Skeleton City, because they put up the bones (concrete), but will never put on meat or clothing. (interiors, finishing and windows)
As an example of the developer abandoned.
See video timestamp 4:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm4FoPmF...
timestamp 2:40 Paid for the property.. can't get it.
timestamp 3:30 1.6 million homes unfinished by Evergrand alone.
timestamp 13:40 in 2023 an estimated 20 million presold homes were paid for by developers.

The second type is an actual city with a large population that has become hollowed out due to industry shutdowns and then the migrant population moving back to the countryside to live much more cheaply or to a different city with the hopes of finding a job there. There is an economic multiplier effect, with industries shutting down. When you shut down a large business with say 10k jobs. an additional 30-50,000 jobs are lost as secondary to the main industry.. ie. daycare, teachers, restaurants, drivers, accounting, banking, clothing, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD3QfVAw...
I have watched hundred's of videos posted by locals calling their own city a 'deserted ghost town.'

The third is is the actual city that nobody ever moved to. There are +100M purchased and completed units that buyers
purchased with the sole intent of holding as a store of wealth. In my mind, that equals at least 100 ghost cities.

This guy is pretty anti CCP but he is commenting on a Local citizen doing a video of how empty the city is.
There are too many videos that I ignore most and only look for them when rickroll says they are fully occupied.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVTD475N...
Timestamp 13:30

The most famous is
AI Overview Xiong'an New Area, championed by Chinese President Xi Jinping as a "city of the future," is frequently labeled a "ghost city" due to widespread emptiness despite billions in investment. Launched in 2017 to relieve Beijing of non-essential functions, this $85+ billion, 2,000-sq-km project remains largely vacant, with new, high-tech infrastructure struggling to attract residents.Key Aspects of Xiong'an New Area:Purpose: Located 100km south of Beijing in Hebei, it is designed to be a "smart" city, handling administrative offices, state-owned enterprises, and research facilities."Ghost City" Status: Visitors describe eerily empty, luxurious streets, with many buildings unoccupied. It is sometimes called a "post-apocalyptic tourist site".Slow Growth: Despite official reports claiming a population of over 1 million (largely from surrounding incorporated areas), the new areas lack vibrancy, with many employees hesitant to leave Beijing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfxeEGHo...
Timestamp 13:15 is pretty funny. Did not know this existed. Completed in 2013.

mindflayer

this is like the 10th time you've posted falungong cult propaganda as evidence

if that's the only sources you can find for your info that should tell you all you need to know

at this point i can no longer take anything you do seriously ever again, you either fundamentally lack an ability to consider the quality of your sources or you're actually a member of that cult that believes it can cure cancer, levitate, communicate via esp between members, and transport oneself to other astral planes to communicate with aliens

I plugged in Famous Ghost City into Chat GPT.. that is what it spit out. Xiong'an New Area. Is that even a city?
Don't blame me. You use whatever AI you want and see what it spits out.

What specific macro economic data or so called facts are you arguing against? Try not to use a blanket statement.
Use specifics so I can find the (your) counter information to my own research.

Population trend? (I took the stats from China's official stats)
The fact that Chinese citizens used to use Real Estate as a store of wealth?
Number of empty units?
Number of paid for but undelivered units. (I am just estimating this... so I would like to hear your opinion)
Foreign investment outflows? Easier to track because you can check foreign companies making announecments of plant closures and reductions.
The multiplier effect in Economics? (applies to all countries/all types of business/ I learned this back when I took a course in City planning)
The major shift of migrant workers leaving one city to look for jobs in another city?
The shift from a 9-9-6 lifestyle to a lay flat lifestyle?
The fact that The three red lines was quietly removed just when Vanke (big % owned by Shenzen metro/State Owned) was about to go bust.

it seems like you already admit the First type of ghost city by blaming horrible management of specific RE companies.

I am not trying to convince you of anything.
Yes the video's are only what disgruntled citizens post so lets discount them.

I am steel-manning my belief, and I am strongly encouraging you to smash my Ideas so that I make better investment decisions.
This is Cunningham's law.
If I am wrong, people like you should easily be able to blow the Idea apart with some sort of researchable facts. And i will change my outlook accordingly.

mindflayer, for the umpteenth time you're citing falun gong media as if it's evidence

at this point there are only two possibilities. either you're a member of the cult yourself, or you're so incapable of evaluating a source that you keep landing on the same cult-funded propaganda network month after month and treating it as journalism. there is no third option

legitimate coverage of china exists in enormous quantities and you bypass all of it to bring back youtube videos from a movement whose founder claims he can levitate, whose members believe they can cure cancer through meditation, and which holds that the chinese government is the literal manifestation of evil on earth and have spent hundreds of millions building up a media empire to do just that

and now you're invoking cunningham's law and asking me to disprove your claims. that's not how the burden of proof works. i counter by telling you that a flying spaghetti monster controls the chinese real estate market and demand you disprove it. the onus is on the person making the claim to bring sources worth engaging with. you have not done that once. if you ever want to be taken seriously on this topic, that's where you start

i've told you, use any number of credible news organizations

chinese real estate is widely covered in great depth by legit organizations

are you or are you not a member?

Member of what?!? What legit news organizations are you referring to?

Ok so I am taking your comments seriously and treating you like a Charlie Munger... 'Invert, always invert.'

Are the search algorithms preventing me from finding pro China Real Estate news? possibly.
Is the algorithm just feeding me clickbait with shocking headlines? probably.

Lets assume both are true and that I need to Search specifically for good China Real Estate news.
Please note that I have taken your side of the argument and am trying to smash my own ideas.

I spent several hours over two days doing two levels of search. The first was a direct search.

I started off with news agencies that are anti western or anti Trump, or slightly pro China, and ended with the very pro China news.
BBC, Al Jazeera and several Indian news sources. (I only read English) South China Morning Post, Xinghua News. I already mentioned that I read Peoples Daily and Global times.

Key Pro-Beijing/CCP News Outlets:State-Owned Media (Mainland):
People's Daily: The official newspaper of the CCP Central Committee.
Xinhua News Agency: The official state press agency, managing a global network.
China Global Television Network (CGTN): The international television division of state-run China Media Group.
China Daily: A national English-language daily under the Central Propaganda Department.
Global Times: A nationalistic tabloid published by People's Daily.
China Central Television (CCTV): Major state television broadcaster.
China News Service: State-owned news service focusing on overseas Chinese.Pro-Beijing Media (Hong Kong/International):
South China Morning Post (SCMP): Owned by Alibaba Group; its editorial stance is frequently described as shifting towards a pro-Beijing position, serving as a soft power tool.

AI Overview According to BBC News, China's property market is in a deep, long-term crisis, with major developers like Evergrande collapsing under roughly \(\$45\) billion in debts and being ordered to liquidate. The slump, which began in 2021, has seen widespread defaults, unfinished homes, and falling prices, dragging on the broader economy

According to Al Jazeera reports (as of late 2025), China's real estate sector is facing a deep, multi-year slump characterized by falling home sales, high debt, and widespread unfinished projects, which are severely restricting consumer spending and weakening economic growth. Despite government efforts to ease credit and stimulate demand, confidence remains low and property prices continue to struggle, marking a significant, ongoing challenge to the nation's economic health.

Indian news.. inflammatory, clickbait. Same news with a negative headline. (ignore)

South China Morning Post: Rising second-hand home sales offer signs ChinaÂ’s property slump is bottoming out
Increased resale activity, driven by first-time buyers and policy support, is fuelling hopes that ChinaÂ’s property market may be stabilising.
29 Mar 2026 - 2:00PM

Xinhua
https://english.news.cn › ...
Dec 23, 2025 — China's top housing authority has pledged to stabilize the real-estate market,
BEIJING, April 29 (Xinhua) -- China's property market, after a period of adjustment, is showing tentative signs of recovery, with transaction volumes in major cities rising in March and month-on-month price declines easing into flat or modest gains, indicating a gradual return of buyer confidence and improving market liquidity.

My Second level of search was AI assisted. I asked two different AI LLM's to list the top 5 positive Real Estate News articles of the last 12 months and summarize them in 50 words.
The articles and summaries mention, Market Stabilizing, Prices starting to recover, Lower interest rates, Chengdu Property Rights pilot program .. blueprint for second tier success., Lowering inventory is promoting the market to Stop falling. etc. What I read in the background are articles on things that the CCP has enacted policies for. They work but are extremely slow.

I also asked AI about current ghost cities, and about old ones filling up. I didn't ask it, but it categorized the top 10 as 'most famous ghost cities' and listed 40 more named ghost cities.
It also mentioned that two success cities that are no longer ghost cities are
Ordos and Zhengdong new area. the LLM goes on to explain how and why they exist and why they will likely persist. Same reasons I stated earlier.
I further asked it to estimate.. and It popped out some out of the box thinking.. by using Areas that have stayed dark on satellite imaging for longer than +10 years. It Categorized 20-22 persistent Ghost Cities. Estimated 50 Major Ghost Districts. and over +1000 unfinished projects (those I call Skeleton Cities)

The best news in China is exactly what I posted a few days ago that there are signs of recovery... but it is still declining.
Now more than ever, I am convinced that the points I make are correct. That may change in 6-12 months, but until then, if people ask me about RE in China. I am sticking to my points.
Also note, I have added Xinhua News to my daily reading on Business and RE.

each and every single time you share anything here, it's from a falungong mouthpiece

at first i thought it was unintentional, perhaps you're just one of the rubes they are targeting who won't ask "hey who is behind this website/youtube channel" but i've mentioned it enough and instead of having a normal "ew gross" response, you keep on defending it and exclusively sharing media from that cult going forward

and despite having a direct conversation on it, you still pretend to not know what we're talking about

so you're not just a member of falungong, but you're a pansy who is both afraid to openly reject them by saying you're not a member and too much of a pansy to also admit you're a member so we're back to "what is this organization you speak of"

jfc you are pathetic

I tried my best to be honest about this discussion.
I have sourced The Peoples Daily, Xinhua News, Global Times and The South China Morning Post, all Pro China News sources. They all confirm my position.
Are you saying they are falungong mouthpieces?!? What is your obsession with falungong?!?

You can't even come up with a single idea to counter mine.
You still attack the person instead of the idea.

I did my homework. It is there for anyone to research and counter (with facts instead of personal attacks)
You have not done any work. I do not know what your beef is. From here on, I am going to dismiss your comments as a troll looking for clicks.

are you or are you not a member of falungong?

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/arcadia-c...

Arcadia, California, Mayor Federally Charged with Acting as Illegal Agent of the People’s Republic of China

Clearly stated before and again for you.

My comments are not on politics (Politics and Society thread.)

My comments are on the effects of policies on the economy and the wealth of the Society.
One Child Policy.. I completely understand it. If you don't, you are not old enough and
your mother never said to you .
"Eat everything on your plate, don't you know there are children starving in China?"
...YES my mother said that to me all the time when I was young.
If you have never heard that, then read, Chapter 9-12 of The Good Earth by Pearl S/. Buck
My Grandfather left China during that time.

The One Child and other policies like the Three Red Lines and the Tax Structure have a cause and effect relation on Society,
Real Estate development and Wealth in China and by extension Real Estate and Wealth in North America.