AA on QJJ,r
1/3 NL LJ has about 250, HJ about 200, hero covers. LJ is loose raiser and appears decent. HJ is bad player, doesn’t raise much preflop, got stacked with hand not strong enough to call allin with. LJ raises to 12 (he always has open raised larger), HJ calls, hero 3!s to 46 in SB with AcAs, both players calls. Flop (142) QcJsJd. Should hero cbet? If so how much?
13 Replies
I think a smaller open is likely a small pair, so not worried about him. I worry more about the bad player with this flop.
The standard multi-way 1/3 pot bet seems fine
Bet 50. If you check, they likely check behind - I don’t think they’re stabbing and you lose value when it checks thru.
It’s a 3bet pot
All we know is that everyone has strong hands so far - and it’s hard to put anyone on a jack that will probably slow play. If the flop gets raised, it’s probably not a jack and one time I will continue against aggression.
If someone calls, probably going small on the turn and if I get raised this time it starts feeling like a jack.
So many of these posts are villain dependent. This is not online, we get to watch what they do, how they act/react, fast call or tank, did there eyes light up as you watch them when the cards are dealt, are they acting normally, etc and etc
I like discussing poker, but there never seems to be an adequate description of villains in these discussions. Thus, it’s hard to range
I give an opinion, but if I knew something that you didn’t, saw something that you didn’t - I might have a completely different perspective.
I would’ve probably raised to a stack of red from the SB hoping to win it right there and then flash the rockets, but whatever.
AP, oop, superwet board, 45 BB bloated pot, two short stacked looseys, I’m not overthinking it, I’m charging K9 & A4bdnfd the max, and getting the max from QT.
$142 in the pot, ~$200 behind, I'm just ripping it in.
I bet 60 with the intention of shoving the turn. Would have called a shove, but not been happy about it. They both folded.
PRE - raise bigger. At least $60-$65. When LJ starts with $250, I might try to induce him to jam by making it $90-$100.
FLOP - what calls a c-bet here? I think I'd check to feign weakness and hope one of them stabs at it with Qx, some lower PP, or whatever draws get here this way.
If we want to c-bet, I think we might want to go small, like 1/4 pot, to keep the calling ranges wider. Hard to target many worse hands for value on this board, in this set-up. We might bet $35 or $40 at most.
I'm fine with preflop.
Looks like we only have about a stack / or a little more against both players, so we're trivially committed and if someone has a Jx then nice preflop call sir / here's all my money.
I think if there was a flush draw I would just jam the flop. With no flush draw I think I just bet like upwards of 1/2 PSB or whatever and then jam the rest in on the turn.
GcluelessNLnoobG
Really, though I don’t care if they call or jam either. All the money’s going in regardless. I buyin for $1000 at 1/3 and have learned not to overthink AA against short stack typical recs.
I'm sorry. I think our small 3B size pre is a massive error vs short stacks.
We should be raising to a size that pot-commits them if they call, making it a jam or fold decision for them. At a minimum, we should go 5x ($60), but I don't think I'd ever go less than $75 when the initial raiser is starting with $250, and the guy who called next to act starts with $200.
I'd really like to see all the money go in pre-flop, when we know we have by far the best of it. At worst, I'd like to have less than 1 SPR going to the flop.
Once we get to the flop this way, it's hard to imagine getting stacks in with very many worse hands, when we double-block AQ, and our opponents would need to be truly awful to get it in with TT or worse.
Regarding preflop sizing, I personally think most of our sizing at non-deep stacks should simply offer an IO that we desire (especially if we'll likely have to stack off postflop due to having TP+ at a small SPR). I like offering poor 8:1 IO because even setminers aren't going to be profitable here (let alone anything else). If we target the bigger $250 stack at 8:1 IO that would mean a reraise of about $30 or so on top, so about $42ish or so, so about exactly what we did.
Having people fold here at these non-deep stacks to an overly large raise is an absolute disaster when we have AA, imo. More reason to raise larger when we're a little more comfortable taking it down preflop, such as with an obscene amount of dead money with JJ, or perhaps with AK looking to setup a PSB shove for the flop. And, no, I'm not too worried about balance.
GcluelessshortstackingnoobG
We should be absolutely devastated if they don't continue preflop when we have AA and there's currently only $28 in the pot and they have shortstacks (i.e. we don't have to worry about tricky difficult later street spots). Having them fold preflop is not a coup, it's a disaster.
GcluelessNLnoobG
With AA specifically you have the preflop nuts and you really only have one objective preflop and that's to bloat the pot as much as possible, even if it goes multiway because your share of equity is so good.
Even so (or perhaps because of that) you can go a little larger preflop, 55-60, doesn't have to be huge. OOP you'd probably be a little happier if it went heads up.
Postflop, I wouldn't be expecting anyone to bet a Queen or a draw for us, so cbetting small and jamming turn. Reluctantly calling it off if someone jams. Not check-calling. Jamming flop could be OK as well, job at don't want to let anyone with a weak Queen off the hook and a small bet might get one of the fish to nibble with some other nonsense like a gutshot.
