USA Goes to War Against Iran
Time for a dedicated thread to the war.
How long will it last and what will be the probable outcome?
the IRGC is not colonial or imperialist. again, you guys are doing that inversion thing. the IRGC is fighting against the Imperialists.
yesterday Israel slaughtered over 50 civilians in Lebanon. they buried alive entire families that rescuers tried to save. there are videos of their cries from below the rubble. the Mechanism Committee* instructed the Lebanese government to stop rescuing them and the government complied.
this guy wants to come in here and say that backing a legitimate resistance group is "the brutal kind which openly uses killing and terror to suppress local protest".
no fighting the monsters who bury people alive and then force the government to force rescuers to let them die is the opposite of Imperialism. the thuggish mass murdering Supremacist pedophiles are the brutal terrorists.
the Mechanism Committee is the Imperialism and the brutality and intentional terror slaughter of civilians. its the West. the USA and the Jewish Colony. they are the Empire.
I don’t understand the argument. Is it supposed to be that if there is an imperialist or colonialist regime that controls a particular territory, that if there is a regional power that also attempts to control that territory then only one of them can be considered imperialist/colonialist? Seems like a total non-sequitor or a false dilemma.
the US and Israel literally control the Lebanese government. they have the power to make it stop searching for dying civilians within reach. but sure, Iran is "attempting to control the territory." like be for real for once man.
the IRGC is not colonial or imperialist. again, you guys are doing that inversion thing. the IRGC is fighting against the Imperialists.
It's not colonial at this stage, but it's arguably imperialist since it seeks regional dominance by manipulating proxies against its power-rivals. Furthermore it is seeking dominance over Sunni Arabs, when Iran is neither Sunni nor Arab, and the IRGC doesn't think much of people who are, and sees them (and uses them) as mere pawns.
the US and Israel literally control the Lebanese government. they have the power to make it stop searching for dying civilians within reach. but sure, Iran is "attempting to control the territory." like be for real for once man.
It’s a struggle for regional dominance, yes. I’m not denying that the government of Lebanon seems to be more aligned with Israel and the US at the moment, whether by fear or by necessity.
That doesn’t change what the IRGC is and what they are attempting to accomplish. You’re setting up a false dilemma as if it isn’t well established conceptually that multiple powers can have interest over a vassal or proxy state at the same time, oftentimes funding opposing forces and groups within the same society.
Hezbollah was practically created by Iran. If the US created a paramilitary force in another country, I would assume you would call it imperialist at the very least.
right bc the US is the Empire! Iran is not an empire. they are a country under sanctions that has been attacked countless times including a brutal Empire backed invasion from Iraq.
Iran is not in Lebanon bc they want to take over the country and extract the resources. they are backing an ideological ally that in their fight against Imperialism.
right bc the US is the Empire! Iran is not an empire. they are a country under sanctions that has been attacked countless times including a brutal Empire backed invasion from Iraq.
Iran is not in Lebanon bc they want to take over the country and extract the resources. they are backing an ideological ally that in their fight against Imperialism.
Iran has intervened in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine, and Yemen against other regional powers. They have natural resource exports and a big military. Their interventionist stance has been enshrined since the beginning of their theocracy, with the goal of regional dominance.
They don’t have to have a goal of extracting resources to have imperial power over Lebanon. Lebanon’s domestic and international posture is being pressured by Iran providing Hezbollah with weapons and Hezbollah providing Iran with a strategic ally against Israel. Being able to operate and command operations from Southern Lebanon is enough of a benefit for them to have interest in that territory.
Another benefit of having regional dominance is those sanctions you mention. Having networks of allies to be able to open up trade paths is a huge economic benefit to them. Plenty of empires have only tried to open up trade paths and not taken economic benefit directly but rather indirectly through control of important trade corridors, which has been instrumental to Iran’s ability to project power.
I don’t see why you think everything they do is altruistic.
I never said it was altruistic. if anything, it is existential.
Iran has intervened in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine, and Yemen against other regional powers.
this is a joke. who were these "regional powers"? they fought against Empire backed Salafi death squads. they fought ISIS and Al Qaeda ffs.
. Lebanon’s domestic and international posture is being pressured by Iran providing Hezbollah
Lebanon's leadership was handpicked by the USA and Israel. thats the Imperialism! Lebanon is 50-60% Shia who are oppressed and disenfranchised.
It being existential is perfectly consistent with it still being imperial.
this is a joke. who were these "regional powers"? they fought against Empire backed Salafi death squads. they fought ISIS and Al Qaeda ffs.
Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey
Lebanon's leadership was handpicked by the USA and Israel. thats the Imperialism! Lebanon is 50-60% Shia who are oppressed and disenfranchised.
Lebanon’s leadership today? Not really.
They’re also not 50-60% Shia, where did you get that number from?
bruv from your own link
Here’s another source. Of course you’ll complain it’s the State Department, but they are quoting a 3rd party source for the claim.
The U.S. government estimates the total population at 5.3 million (midyear 2022). The Office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and other organizations estimate that the total population includes 4.5 million citizens and 1.5 million refugees fleeing the conflicts in Syria and Iraq. While a majority of refugees are Syrian, the country also hosts a Palestinian refugee population that has been present in the country for more than 70 years. The UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East estimates there are more than 180,000 Palestinian refugees in the country, in addition to more than 30,000 Palestinian refugees from Syria as of December 2022.
The country has not conducted an official census of its population since 1932. However, Statistics Lebanon, an independent polling and research firm, estimates that 69.3 percent of the citizen population is Muslim (31.2 percent Sunni, 32 percent Shia, and 6.1 percent Alawites and Ismailis combined). Statistics Lebanon further estimates 30.7 percent of the population is Christian. Maronite Catholics are the largest Christian group (with 52.5 percent of the Christian population), followed by Greek Orthodox (25 percent of the Christian population). Other Christian groups include Greek Catholics (Melkites), Armenian Orthodox, Armenian Catholics, Syriac Orthodox, Syriac Catholics, Assyrians, Chaldean Catholics, Copts, Protestants (including Presbyterians, Baptists, and Seventh-day Adventists), Roman (Latin) Catholics, and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Church of Jesus Christ). According to Statistics Lebanon, 5.5 percent of the population is Druze, concentrated in the rural, mountainous areas east and south of Beirut. There are also small numbers of Jews, Baha’is, Buddhists, and Hindus. The Jewish Community Council, which represents the country’s Jewish community, estimates 70 to 100 Jews reside in the country.
https://2021-2025.state.gov/reports/2022...
Note that majority of the Muslim refugees referenced are Sunnis, so if we counted them in the demography the stats would likely be worse.
There were many fractured Shiia paramilitary groups prior to the formation of Hezbollah. It would not have been able to consolidate power without the tactical, political, and financial support of the IRGC and the blessing of Iran.
It’s funny because you guys are the same people that claim that the CIA created Al Qaeda because we supported the Afghan mujahideen against the Soviets (and we weren’t even close to their primary supporters unlike the IRGC with Hezbollah).
I don’t understand the argument. Is it supposed to be that if there is an imperialist or colonialist regime that controls a particular territory, that if there is a regional power that also attempts to control that territory then only one of them can be considered imperialist/colonialist? Seems like a total non-sequitor or a false dilemma.
It is also a very dangerous false dilemma, because it obfuscates one of the big dangers with imperialist ambition: The tendency for imperialist nations to get embroiled in conflict when their interests clash. To make matters worse, as the tangled webs of imperialism become more complicated, these conflicts become increasingly difficult to predict, they can easily spread out of control and eventually encompass entire regions, continents or even the world.
Look to the cold war for a good example. As the insanity kept growing larger, weapons of mass destruction increased in numbers to the point where hundreds of the world's largest metropolitan centres would have been obliterated if full scale conflict broke out, and proxy wars broke out all over the globe and destabilized entire regions for half a century (and are still unstable today). On several occasions only luck saved us from catastrophe.
These tangled webs are very difficult to escape from. It is not as simple as one nation / side stepping down and then the conflict resolves itself. These things tend to become mexican standoffs. There are no good exit strategies, nor clear paths to victory.
The IRGC exists to force Sharia law on the people of Iran.
Keeping the imperialists at bay is just a means to that end.
They are not fighting to free their people but to dominate them without competition.
I guess we'll be bombing Oman now.
The IRGC exists to force Sharia law on the people of Iran.
Keeping the imperialists at bay is just a means to that end.
They are not fighting to free their people but to dominate them without competition.
If the IRGC wanted to free their people, they would not keep executing Iranians for criticizing them.
The IRGC is a media conglomerate, a large industrial corporation, a military branch, a religious institution for education, paramilitary force, a mafia, a political branch and is only under nominal control of the theocracy it supposedly serves.
It is very hard to find a single organization which better embodies the dangers of media monopolization, censorship, corporate greed, corruption, theocratic rule, unchecked military branches, paramilitary forces and violent political militias.
