Private Game, $1-$2-($5 optional straddle, been on about 50-60% of the time)

In a spot where we have massive equity and block our opponent from having anything good we should consider checking flop.

That said you spaz induced. It’s very likely he has air, let him keep blasting and just call turn.

Preflop: go way larger here. There's 55 of dead money sitting there.

Ap flop: just x. We block his value. Let him stab at it. AP just call.

AP Turn: V makes a value bet. He wants us to call our TPTK/GK hands. I don't want to do what he wants us to do. I would rather just call a polar bet.

I prefer to jam here. I'm hoping he has the rare AJ or a set. There are a lot of action-killing rivers or bad rivers for H here - heart, another wheel-completing card. Minclick gives him almost direct odds to call his FDs.

He either has a value hand with which he can call a jam with or he has total airball and isn;t putting more money in anyway. I'm not minclicking and giving him the right IO to make his flushes.

I think his value bet on Turn suggests he has value so I jam.

Grunch:

PRE - raise bigger. You're OOP. Make it at least $100. If nothing else, it'll make it easier to calculate the pot size in your head on future streets.

FLOP - Ehhhh...I'd go 10% pot in a 4BP when we're starting 200BB's deep or thereabouts. When we're 450BB's deep in a 3BP, I'd either check or go a little bigger, like range-bet sizing.

When we have top set on A42rb, it's hard to target many hands for multiple streets. I'd be doing a lot of checking, praying the turn improves V to a worse set, and he thinks we've got AK or we're bluffing to try and rep AK when we make our delayed c-bet.

As played, when we bet 10% pot and V clicks it, I kinda want to click it back to $60 or $80, and then check turn. My reasoning is your 10% pot bet is basically a check, and his click-back is basically a check-back. If he's not scared to click it back, he's unlikely to fold if we make it another $20-$40, but he'll start over-folding when we barrel turn, so I just want to get as much money as possible into the pot on the flop, when we're starting super-deep, and he's willing to screw around.

TURN - With the flop action, I think checking is okay, but I might still come out and bet. He doesn't know what we were doing or he was doing on the flop, so it's doubtful he'll be able to figure it out here if we come out and bet 1/2 pot. Pray he raises again. Pray he raises HUGE.

As played, I'd still raise. I'm not worried about what he does with worse AX, sets or any 2P. I'm thinking more about all the Broadway combos that picked up a GSSD, especially the heart combos.

He's got $645 left in his stack, and there's $415 in the pot. If we jam, the pot will be $1060, and he'll be getting 1.64 to 1. I don't think he's getting away from worse AX or better. The question is if he can get away from a hand like KQhh/KThh/QThh, and if he even has those hands in this line.

Just counting combos - he has 3 of JJ, 3 of 44, 3 of 22, 2 of A4s, 1 of A2s, and 1 of AJs (maybe 3 of AJ total, if he's got AJo). That's 13-15 combos he's never folding to a jam. He also has 3 of those combo-draw hands that might not fold. Then he's got 12 of KK/QQ that will snap fold, assuming he's daft enough to play any of them this way.

I think I'd just jam here. Mostly because I think with our read, he might have AJo, and he might not find the correct fold with those combo-draws, and even if he has KK or QQ, the odds of him making the 2nd best hand on the river are slim, but if he does, it brings in 2/3 of the draws we're hoping will brick, so we won't know if we got the best possible card or the worse possible card.

If we flat call, then check-fold on a river K or Q, or another heart, it's a disaster.

Thank you all for feedback so far, I appreciate it! In game I debated small raise vs jam on turn and settled on small raise but I totally get where y'all are coming from.

Hero c/r to $275….UTG calls.

At this point I have his range in two buckets, AK/AQ/AJ that didn’t 4bet pre, and bluffs that he started on flop that picked up back door equity such as KQhh, KThh, QThh, 56hh maybe some other flush / straight draws.

I think 22/44/A4ss/A2ss would be pretty loose pre but wouldn’t completely surprise me. I guess if I had him coolered with these on flop it could make sense. He is rather loose but is he that loose?…JJ doesn’t make sense to me, min clicking flop but I did bet 10 % pot haha.

All in all, my decision to click it to $275 was to essentially set up SPR for 2/3 pot jam on river, targeting specifically AK/AQ/AJ. I did realize I am giving good price for his draws but my brain was scrambled at this point in game and it gets even more scrambled on this river….

River ($840) Ac4h2dJh….As….Hero?

Villain has roughly $500 left in stack.

In game I was not thinking about targeting full houses because money gets in whether I check or bet….basically debating check vs tiny bet (to induce bluffs). Also, is there ever a world where he somehow has an in between strength hand? I don’t think so but regardless,

Hero bets $75….

Yeesh.

Not looking to beat you up, Hoss, but I don't like how you played this.

I don't think there's any way KK or QQ is going to call a big bet. Maybe they call your very small bet. But they're not going to be induced into raising just because you go less than 10% pot. Doubtful KQ/KT/QT are going to raise as a bluff, but there's always a sliver of a chance. Maybe that sliver is a little bigger here, because your line confuses V.

I'm not certain that lower boats are going to raise. Maybe JJ does, but JJ might not jam, which is what you want. Maybe V will click it back, but then fold if you 3B, unless he levels himself into thinking you're over-playing AK. I think 44 and 22 probably just flick in the call and hope you don't have AA, AJ, or JJ.

In your spot, I'd be making some on-the-fly assumptions based on our read of V. I might think that jamming all in might let him get away from JJ, so I might bet $200. If I thought he might be induced to raise, I might bet $150-$175. If I think V is indifferent to the money, and capable of seeing that AA is one combo, but AK is 4 combos, I'd just jam and pray he has a boat.

The thing about really big pots is that opponents who are on a draw tend to be more aggro on flops and turns, and obviously over-fold when they brick, whereas opponents who have thin value tend to be more gun-shy, and less likely to bet or raise for value when they think the pot is big enough already. In this spot, all the boats are just thin value, relative to AA, and might just be happy to take down a big pot without risking more.

Adding to the above, if it turns out that your unorthodox line got max value from something unexpected, well played.

Well, if he has AJ now there's a problem.

So V has air, and he has KK?/QQ?/JJ/44/22. And really the way the hand went down I think his air is mostly KQhh, KThh and maybe a few other combos of Khxh.

We check, are any of those hands betting for value when AJ/A4/A2 are all very logical hand for hero here? With the minclick OTT, I think Hero removes KK/QQ and any mid-pps from range. Hero has Ax almost always, JJ sometimes. So it would be an insane punt for V to jam here with only 60% pot for value or a bluff. I don't think most Vs are going to do that. I guess maybe JJ could talk itself into jamming and be convinced that AK will call off or that maybe H has 44/22 sometimes. But overall, I think if we check, V gives up all bluffs and checks back almost all his value.

Betting small, I don't think there's enough room to inspire a spaz play. After your bet, you'd only have to call 40% pot to his jam. And as noted above H has a lot of obvious hands that are going to sigh call. It is beyond optimistic for V to think that he has any fold equity. The positive is that if V thinks you might be FOS, then KQhh could bluffcatch for this size and all the boats are calling you. I'm not sure he has KK/QQ anymore (I think those checkback turn a lot) but maybe the small bet gets a crying call sometimes.

I prefer just jamming. The boats have a hard time folding because you could have AK/AQ and its only 60% pot. You set up a nice SPR to jam, so jam. Yeah, you're probably folding out all the Kx, KK/QQ to whatever extent he still has them, but I think boats sigh call us down often enough that we just have to go for max value.

It's interesting that you think he's got 65s in range, but then say 22, 44, A2s and A4s would be pretty loose. I'd think all of those hands would be loose opens and 3B-calls from UTG.

If he's opening that wide, is it possible he opened 53s and flopped the wheel? It sounds crazy, but you are playing super deep, and there might be some private game meta going on, leading to some shenanigans. I could see 53 playing this way post-flop.

No straddle on in this hand, yet he opened to 8.5BB. What do you make of that? Was that normal in this game, at that time?

When I see someone open for a ridiculously large size, I tend to think it's JJ/TT pretty often. They raise huge pre because they don't know what to do post flop on a lot of boards. It's conceivable that he'd raise some of those other hands using a large size, but it's hard to find the reasoning for it.

Your 10% pot c-bet could have induced him to screw around by just clicking it back with almost any hand. I think we can mostly ignore that. The hand really begins on the turn.

What we think V is doing on the turn depends a lot on what we think of him as a player. If we don't think he's getting OOL, then he has to have something when he barrels. Doubtful KK/QQ are going to bet there. Obviously he has some piece of the board when he calls our x/r.

When we make quads on the river, we know he doesn't have any AX combo. So it looks like he has a boat, or nothing, unless maybe he was getting OOL by raising 53s pre and flopped the wheel.

I'd be sick if he just flat called the $75. If it induces him to jam, awesome. Any other result and I'd be beating myself up for how I played it.

Not sure what an "in between hand" might be here. Would that be a straight with 53, or a low boat with 44/22? KK/QQ?

Opponents will slow-play more when they're in position. So, yeah, it's possible he was stringing us along with a straight or low set, but he would have had to raise pre for a huge size with a very speculative hand. And it seems like straights would go for more value on the turn.

Starting to feel like maybe V had 53s, and we sucked out.

Doubtful many opponents would be able to make sense of your line. If your table image is capable LAG, you might get looked up here by a surprisingly wide range.

My fault for not giving enough context prior to hand history. The “meta” of this game in my mind is that it plays slightly looser than a typical 1-2 / 2-5 casino game. Typical preflop raises were $12-15 without straddle on and $15-$25 w straddle. (Nothing too crazy pre but overall the game is just a little bit splashier in general pre and post)

I could also have been more descriptive of my initial villain description. I know I labeled him as “trying rec” but I also believe him to have somewhat of an ego / the type of player type that will constantly fight for pots.

As for range analysis, I did mention in initial post 56s is a bit of a stretch but honestly I think 22 44 A4s and A2s could be as well. Doc I think it’s interesting you bring up 53s as well because if V is opening hands above UTG, then I guess 53s isn’t out of the realm of possibility either given V description, and it is another four combos.

I think this hand boils down to how well my in game calibration is. Meaning, If you asked me on the river, what size I would have to bet to make 22 44 and JJ fold, I would say 1-1.2k and we are obviously not that deep lol. My other assumption is V is putting the money in with these hands as well.

Last thing I’ll say before result is I think players tend to lose track of pot size / SPR (myself included) and I feel as though in V’s mind, a $500 bet is still somewhat sizable for this game. (If he were capable of bluffing river)

Onto result:

River: Ac4h2dJh….As
Hero bets $75
Villain jams
Hero snaps and fast rolls hand to be polite but really wanting reveal, we don’t get one and villain leaves shortly after.

Not posting this hand to brag, in fact I believe we most likely coolered Villain. I think the chances that we induced a bluff are maybe 10% or less.

I guess my main purpose of posting this hand was to get feedback on turn and river as played, which you guys offered and I appreciate. I’m still kind of torn with river decision between check, tiny bet, small/medium bet, or jam. In retrospect I think I could have simplified whole line by just going b33, b60, jam but who knows. Like you said Doc, I think a big piece of this hand boils down to the meta, as well as our perception of villain.

I think this is a mistake, 44/22 aren't always shoving this river to a tiny bet IMO. Might even find a disciplined check back.

Also far from obvious that you will fold AhTh if you check and he shoves, so V would have to be pretty special to bluff shove KhQh with this line.

So just put all of the money in.

I don’t disagree with you illiterate and in most games I play in, I think you’re right. However, this game and this player are why I made such assumptions. I definitely don’t hate just jamming river, hoping we coolered him and ensuring we get it all. It is very gross if my assumptions are wrong and he just calls $75 with 44 22 or JJ, but in game I just didn’t see him doing that.

Yeah, I think it's a mistake not to jam river.

I'm also not a big fan of the turn "megaphone" min xr, which basically announces to the villain that you have the nuts. I would rather xjam or xcall versus an aggro villain.

Our hand looks like aces full at the minimum, so I wouldn't count on the villain to raise with value or bluffs. Just get the money in yourself.

(Happy it worked out, though)

The hand is interesting as an exercise in extracting max value in an extreme situation, and as an exercise in hand-reading, and I suppose also in using our reads of opponents and table dynamics to manipulate the outcome.

I would have fast rolled my hand, too. It sucks that you didn't get a reveal. But we can limit the explanations to those which make some sense and seem most likely:

1. JJ that was screwing around on the flop and gets coolered by the turn.

2. He got out of line pre with 53, 44, or 22 and thought he was stringing you along.

3. Your line made him think you were FOS and he lost his mind with KK/QQ.

4. Hail Mary with some sort of air-ball, or 55/33 blocking the wheel.

In his spot, I'd be most tilted if I had 53 and you sucked out. But I'd think he'd probably show it in that scenario. People love to show their bad beats. A lot of them will slam their cards down and curse. Probably not 53 here.

I'd be most embarrassed if I had KK/QQ/55/33/air. I wouldn't show it, and I hope I wouldn't buy back in if I was playing that bad. But it's hard to fathom him jamming over your min-bet with air or KK/QQ.

JJ, 44, and 22 are all also somewhat embarrassing, because he could have folded 44/22 to your 3B pre, and he didn't need to click it back with JJ on the flop. He also could have gotten away from JJ if the turn didn't make him a set, adding to the tilt factor.

Did he snap jam, or tank-jam? Snap jam would make me think 53 or JJ. Tank jam would make me think 44/22 or lost his mind with KK/QQ/55/33/air.

I dunno. His flop min-raise and turn bet-call make me think he might have had 44/22/53s. Not too many people would be clicking it back without some sort of hand on that board.

It wasn’t a snap jam but definitely not more than 30 seconds. Quick enough to make me think I most likely coolered him but ya never know.

Thanks for the feedback

30 seconds is long enough.

Pretty sure you coolered him. Probably 44, just thinking if you have AJ or JJ, not even crossing his mind you might have AA. Probably put you on AK.