What do you think she had?

Yes - your own hand

Of course she can have numerous hands other than AA - what makes you think she has that specifically?

What are the blinds and BI limits, please?

In what way is this unusual? That she opens at all? In that position? Speaking of which, what is her position? The sizing? If that, how does it compare to her usual sizing?

Assuming that the sizing is large and given the rest of the line, this is usually JJ/QQ, occasionally TT or KK+, ime.

At this stack depth she is probably always 4b with aces pre.

Given the oversized open and the button clicking post this is likely jacks through kings.

Not sure what hero has but we probably don’t want to mess around pre given how strong her range should be.

Grunch:

PRE - this deep, I think we could consider 3B'ing to a larger size, especially if we're unpopular at the table and think opponents are going to under-fold pre. In that scenario I'd be opening a tighter range for a larger size, or doing a lot of flatting.

FLOP - why such a large c-bet size? It would help to know our actual hand here. But either way, in a 3B pot, I'd probably c-bet smaller, like 1/3 pot, or 1/2 at most. Maybe split the baby and go $80.

TURN - The x/c flop, donk turn line is usually going to be a strong but vulnerable hand that opted to see a "safe" turn before fast-playing, rather than x/r'ing flop and possibly getting run-down on future streets.

I'd think she most likely has TT or 77, or an over-pair to the board, so JJ or maybe QQ, assuming she's 4B'ing pre with AA/KK.

Thinking about this more...

I do believe this x/c flop-donk turn line is typically a strong hand. However, if our opponents are tired of us constantly c-betting flops and then barreling brick turns for a large size, I could see someone doing this with a thin value hand or a draw, as a way to avoid having to check-call a bigger bet.

I've started to notice some of my low stakes opponents trying to slow me down by donking flops or turns without very strong hands. It makes for some tough choices when we have thick value. I'd want to raise with TT, but it's so unbalanced and face-up, especially if we're not raising with other parts of our range.

If we call turn, I think we need to over-fold thin value / SDV if she barrels big on the river, but go for max value by raising huge when we're nutted. Really only calling with my best bluff catchers.

The bigger question is how to play the river if she checks. I think my approach would be to use a smaller bet size for value, targeting all the weaker value in her range. I'd think that would dictate a larger bluff size.

But my gut instinct is that they're under-folding river in this line, and so we should probably be giving up and checking back a lot. If we're going to check back a lot, that would suggest we over-fold turns with our low equity bluffs when they donk for a large size.

Like, I think I'd fold turn with any draw that wasn't super high equity and drawing to either the nut straight or nut flush. My continue range here is going to be JJ+ for value, and 98ss or better draws, and I don't think I'd have many, if any raises, even with sets.

Putting her on AA and folding JJ-KK seems insanely nitty or MUBSy. If we're convinced she has a very strong hand that beats TPTK, maybe we can give her QQ+ and fold JJ. I wouldn't fold KK. I might fold QQ if she barrels river for a huge size. And if she shows JJ, so be it.

I try to remember that my low stakes opponents aren't overly creative. When they take an aggressive line, it's unlikely they're turning a hand with SDV into a bluff. They're more likely going to have value or a good draw.

Is this 5/10? Or 2/5, 10 straddle? Open to 35 at 5/10, doesn't look unusual. Opening 7x UTG from an older WW not Java (and I'd be wondering what she was up too), is a snap fold for most of my range except cooler bait like PPs and decent SCs. Probably not 3! most of that except the usual.

Agree, it's very likely KK-JJ from V. Probably w/o a spade. V hates Hero, we're told, so does that make her more unbluffable, or less? Doubt she believes H has 98 here, though it's deep enough. Will she fold if you call turn, spike a spade or assist w/e H actually has, and go bombs away?

Also agree with crowd, why so big a cbet?

Ok, sorry, I was basically stoned when I posted that. Prescription meds after I got home due to past cancer but still dealing with chemo side effects that are made worse from sitting at a poker table in a cold room.

It's 2/5, 8 max, $1200 BI, but when the table started, I bought in for only $800 because that was the tall stack. By the time more action players sat down with full BI, I was already over max BI.

My hand - KK.

Her normal open was 3 or 4x, not 7x. However, one of the reasons I was aggravating the table was my weird 6 -9x opens. I had decided to experiment with docv's advice to open bigger and it was working. I was still getting 3 and 4 callers, some complaining because they had to pay so much per flop. I was winning nice pots and accumulating chips.

It's possible V's larger raise was a reflection of my aggression over the last several hours.

I think pre. is fine, and flop is too big. Having Ks makes some difference.

Flop x/c and turn donk is massively underbluffed, but she could be tired of you being so active and "value" betting a lot of worse hands than KK. Like QQ/JJ/AT all seem possible. You obviously have spades, 98, Tx and maybe 7x. You being on the BTN makes your range look like it could be super wide.

Maybe ATs doesn't open that big, but QQ/JJ almost certainly do. Also depending on how deep you are I'd think she'd at least consider raising again with AA.

Even with the "post high" data, it's not obvious what position she's in and how much she has behind ... but nothing looks good post. Maybe winners tilt?

If anything it was happy tilt. I get a kick out of people being angry because I'm winning and...being nice.

I had to raise with KK.

Agree 100% but I must admit I fail on occasion. But not that day, even when the floor did an insanely stupid ruling against me.

The table was all OMCs, unusual for that room on a Friday. My buddy is the worst of them. He's never bluffed once. My LAG play was annoying them. I depart from my norm TAG when my opponents are all playing wimpy.

Not only was I winning way more than my fair share of hands, there was a new to the room Hispanic man who spoke little English. I speak little Spanish but enough to make nice nice with him. "Julio est MAGNIFICO!" He was awful but he caught some stupid cards to be the biggest stack briefly. I was his biggest cheerleader, making his day, getting laughs from some, but making a few others miserable when I celebrated his wins or said everyone should fear him entering a pot.

But yeah, if I was losing big, like that miserably bad OWW that never wins and drops $2-3K every Friday, I can see how me having a good time would be aggravating as hell.

1. Because I'm not very bright. It was a mistake this time since I held KK.
2. Because it's a habit, especially at this table. I repeatedly buy pots on the flop with draws and all lows on the board. The OMCs will only defend with very good made hands.

My thinking exactly. I put her on AA or better, she waited for a non flush turn, because she knows I'll bet that draw hard, and then she felt confident to go big.

I have no relevant experience with this V, but this room has lots of OMCs flat big raises pre with AA because they think it is deceptive.

Or she might be thinking f this guy, I’m playing my queens

Yea, I know need to lighten up.
I just don’t like friction much, though I sometimes attract it.

OK, it’s not a snap fold now that I know you have KK.

As usual, I like the way you played it fine. I like big flop bets, let’s narrow that range and find out what villain’s got right now.

The problem with folding KK here is when she shows you KK or …..maybe even AK
Omaha makes a good point aces 4Bet pre

You’re having fun, having a good day, no need to give a bunch back, your gut said fold that can never be a huge mistake.

I guess it would be bad to call turn, then fold river, but in this particular spot, since you have position, it might have made sense to call. She might even give you a FreeCard on the river and make you wonder about making a thin value bet.

So...if we've been LAG'ing it up at a table full of tight/passive OMC's/OWC's and they've gotten tired of our $hlt, there can be some increased frequency of bluffing and / or trapping.

But, the thing is - they still don't bluff enough. When she opens big from EP pre, we 3B her, she tank-calls, then calls a big flop c-bet, and donks turn, she almost certainly has a hand. She's not opening wide, calling a 3B light, floating wide on the flop, and donking almost 60% pot as a bluff, unless maybe she has AK/AQ.

That doesn't necessarily mean she has AA. At this stack depth, I think there has to be some 4B frequency pre. Even if the old bitty's don't have a 4B range normally, they'll 4B with AA when they're tired of our aggression. Also, if she's donking the turn because it's a wet board, it was just as wet on the flop.

I wouldn't rule out JJ or QQ here. I also wouldn't rule out TT. I might rule out 77. At this depth, I don't think I'd fold to the $300 donk. I'd call, and see if she barrels river, and what size she uses.

She might have AA or TT. She could have QQ or JJ, or just AK/AQ. She could also have the other combo of KK. There's a good chance she'll telegraph her hand strength with her bet sizing on the river.

I think you’re right.

I'm so used to bluffing and folding when they show backbone, that I didn't give it enough thought in the moment.

A call had value there. It might have freaked her. I just hate to call 300 then fold.

A lot of times she bets 300-400 on river and we beat queens. If she bets big we fold.

Understandable. But instead of thinking about this spot as just this one instance, try to think of it as one of multiple possible instances, where there are multiple possible actions she can take on the river. Also try to keep in mind that the pool has certain tendencies we can exploit.

First, they tend to under-barrel with bluffs and thin value / SDV. If we call turn, it's not certain she'll always bet river, and if she does bet, it won't always be big.

Secondly, they tend to have too strong a range when they bet big. That doesn't mean our hand is always best when they check or bet smaller. It just means we can over-fold when they bet huge. If they check or bet small, we can check back or call, or raise when we're nutted.

Third, there's some future EV which comes from us showing down a winner with KK. It lets the table know we're not constantly getting OOL, and makes them less prone to playing back at us. There's also some potential EV if seeing us win this pot tilts her or other players at the table.

If we look at all her possible river actions - check, bet small, bet huge - we can see that calling turn is going to allow us to realize our equity when she checks to us, and also allow us to make a more confident fold when she bets huge. The worst case scenario is paying off a smallish bet when she has us beat. Sometimes she'll bet again with a worse hand and we just win a bit more.

If we were OOP, or starting more shallow, or we were on a draw, I'd be less happy continuing on the turn. But IP and deep, I think it's probably a mistake to over-fold to a single aggressive action, when we actually have a good hand that can beat some of her value range.

No sure why we're just putting her on AA?

I think most players of her kind would mostly 4bet AA preflop, so while that is definitely in the range of hands she could have I actually wouldn't think it would be the most common.

A few combos of TT make sense, although I think those more raise the flop.

She doesn't really strike me as the semi-bluff AKss type.

Hands like AT/77/33 seem a little less likely as I'm not sure they are played like that preflop.

So I think I would mostly weight her towards KK-JJ, hands that "aren't good enuf" to 4bet preflop but now that they've seen a fairly safe runout to the turn are ok wanting to bet out and protect against the draws.

So if I was to guesstimate her range in order of likelihood, I would guess something like QQ, KK, JJ, TT, AA, 77, and then far less likely 33 / ATsooted and then AKss/etc.

ETA: I originally assumed this was 1/3 NL, but now I'm guessing due to sizing and stacks this isn't?

GcluelessrangingnoobG

i think this is a bad fold. have to see the river here and see what she does. there's more combos of QQ and JJ that you beat than TT or AA and you're getting a price.

Yeah I don't know the player but you see this type of stop and go with players who want to deny a free card but are too timid to check raise the flop. I might be concerned about TT but would not be able to pinpoint it being Aces, which as others said, villain would probably be glad to 4b and finally put you in your place. I think we can fold JJ tho.

Am I reading the HH correct? Hero made a hero fold with KK to one turn donk bet by putting villain on exactly AA after villain flatted the 3bet pre?

The townspeople are getting riled up.

Torches on the right, pitchforks on the left. Please form an orderly queue.

I've lit my pitchfork on fire tho?

Gbackofthemob?G

Based on the limited info given on V, IME she overwhelmingly has QQ and has put H on AK, possibly nfd spades. She’s played it exactly that way, probably the strongest hand she’s seen last couple hours. AA 4bets pre. KK either 4bets pre, or bets or xr flop. JJ an OWW likely xc’s all the way down. TT it’s dubious she raises 7x. Seems improbable V as described would play the nfd this way. Even more improbable she plays anything else that way.

I can understand the fold based on gut/table read and have made them, but then it’s time to rack up the 188BB win and go.