V makes insane fold - why?
1/3, $100-$500 buy-in. 9 handed. Rivers Portsmouth, VA. Monday night.
It's a pretty loose and splashy game.
V, BTN, is th
I agree, it would be quite odd for him to volunteer a made-up story at the end of the session.
It's also quite odd to fold KK in this situation. I can't see him doing that without picking up an obvious tell from you. But it sounds like you don't think that was the case either.
Weird stuff happens at the poker table.
I saw this happen:
===
Preflop
Utg $10 straddle. Utg+1 $35. HJ calls. CO calls.
($140) Flop Qd 9c 7h
Checks to CO who bets $55.
Player utg calls.
($250) 4d
Check.
CO bets $75.
Utg calls.
($400) 3d
Check.
CO bets $150
Utg calls.
CO mucks.
Utg shows Jc Td.
CO sheepishly says he mucked pocket 2s.
===
Players lie more often than they fold KK to a standard 3B.Again, this convo happened 2 hours later. I didn't ask him about it. He volunteered the info out of nowhere. It was 2am. I'd been saying I should have left earlier, and need to leave soon, so I could get some sleep before having to get up and work again the next day. He'd just said he was getting ready to leave to drive
No I wasn't necessarily going to say your 3-bet range was too tight. I was genuinely wondering if you had been active with 3-bets. I would say if this had been the first time you 3-bet in two hours at the table, I would be more likely to believe that maybe he really folded kings. Given your response here I'm more likely to think he was FOS.My prior observations about you being
Thinking about it, and trying to be as objective as I can be...
When I'm sitting down at a new table in my regular card-room, I think I'm probably going to feel comfortable enough to start getting aggressive fairly quickly. It helps to recognize the regs. It might take me a single orbit, or two at most, to feel like I've got decent enough reads on everyone in the game.
At that point, I'll start the shenanigans. To say my pre-flop tendencies could get me into post-flop trouble would be framing it generously.
When I'm traveling for work, I'd think I'm probably going to be less confident in my reads until I see more of what's going on. It will probably take at least two orbits, if not three, before I feel confident I have the table mapped out. Even then, experience has shown me that my reads can be less reliable.
In this particular game, there were two things going on.
First, I was only able to get $400 out of the ATM earlier in the day, because my bank had no branches in the area. So I was only able to buy into the game for $400, less than I'm used to playing comfortably, if I'm going to try and play "my" game.
Second, the first two times I opened for a raise with playable hands, the pots went multi-way and I ended up folding post. I lost two other pots after calling pre, so I was down to $300 pretty quickly. At which point, I made a mental note to cut the $hlt and tighten up significantly, since this game was clearly even more splashy than the splashiest games back home.
Not long after telling myself to actually play better, and play fewer hands, I started winning, and ran my stack up to $800. I should probably make a mental note to play that way all the time, but I probably won't.
All of which is possibly a long explanation for why V may have given me more respect than I usually get, or deserve. It's quite possible that V perceived me as a solid TAG, as opposed to my usual borderline maniacal LAG table image.
Even if that's the explanation, I still struggle to figure out how he could let go of KK so quickly. I made it $80. He could have called, or 4B to $200 and folded if I jammed for $800. He was sitting on $2k. What's $200 up in smoke when you're up $1500 on the session and planning to play a few more hours?
Even if he had me pegged as a solid TAG and decided he didn't want to tangle with me, c'mon, he's got KK. I could be 3B'ing 99+/AK/AQs from the BB when he raises from the BTN. He'd have to give me a $hlt-ton of unearned credit if he thought I'd be 3B'ing him super-tight.
Not sure if you read my subsequent posts, but...I'd been saying I should leave soon, in order to get some sleep before having to work the next day. He also said he was getting ready to leave and start the 90 minute drive back to Richmond. If he was paying attention to the table talk, he'd have heard me say I was from Philly and in VA on business.
I can't think of a reason why a solid grinder getting ready to leave would bother making up an impromptu story that he folded KK two hours earlier for the benefit of an out-of-town player who was also getting ready to leave. Where's the EV in it?
I asked him if he folded QQ. He could have said he folded QQ, or JJ, or AQ. Anything reasonable, and I wouldn't have thought anything of it. Why lie and say KK? If anything, I'd think he might be hesitant to admit he folded KK, for fear I might say I had QQ or JJ.
I dunno. Nothing about the situation or the way he said it led me to believe he was lying. A lifetime studying people and 25+ years in sales leads me to believe I'm fairly decent at spotting falsehoods.
Weird stuff happens at the poker table.
I saw this happen:
===
Preflop
Utg $10 straddle. Utg+1 $35. HJ calls. CO calls.
($140) Flop Qd 9c 7h
Checks to CO who bets $55.
Player utg calls.
($250) 4d
Check.
CO bets $75.
Utg calls.
($400) 3d
Check.
CO bets $150
Utg calls.
CO mucks.
Utg shows Jc Td.
CO sheepishly says he mucked pocket 2s.
===
Just my 2c is V didn't fold KK and wouldn't fold any PP for $60 more with $800 effective. He had junk. 3b size looks good tho sometimes a smaller size works too, without having to worry if it'll get you HU.
This is a bit irrelevant.
The other day I just sat down and I saw a guy in btn open then bb 3bets.
Flop is like J92 or some crap all lower than Q flop. BB cbets then btn folds QQ faced up!?!?
Maybe he got some reads. But to me, this guy didn't have reads but rather it was his playing style. He didn't want to risk his stack in the middle with QQ.
I had this happen to me in a pub tournament, where I'm BB and BTN calls off something like 25% of his stack before folding QQ face-up on a J-high flop. I mucked AKo (face down) and pretended to be sad.
Anyway yeah it's possible doc's villain folded KK because you'll see every possible peice of nonsense if you spend enough hours at the table. I just don't see the point of spending any mental energy on it.
