No one is winning at 200nl on CoinPoker
This has datamined hands for this year at 200nl. Not a single pre-rb winner at 200nl with any significant volume. Grant
To be fair, from what I've seen they also play mostly against each other, can't expect to win.
But I guess thanks to decent rb it's the way to go right now.
Logically, if the games were better, they wouldn’t be reg battling all the time.
No excuse for playing in a -EV game purely out of boredom.
It's not even a main reason, often simply egos are inflated and people overvalue their edge.
My point is that these losses are not purely out of high rake.
This. If games were indeed good/better, there wouldnt be a surplus of -EV games to jump into.
Certainly not for ALL the mid-high volume players to lose pre-RB
And its not like these players are losing -2 or -3bb/100
The average lossrate of in the screenshot is -6,7bb/100 !
Have you considered the possibility that the top regs are shot taking/moving up quickly (to escape the rake) before reaching relevant sample sizes to be caught in your list?
Have you considered the possibility that the top regs are shot taking/moving up quickly (to escape the rake) before reaching relevant sample sizes to be caught in your list
Yea, but you would find one winner putting in volume, you would think.
Hey all,
I've been grinding CoinPoker for a while (180k hands, 12-tabling, 6max cash with ante) and wanted to share some numbers to see if other high-volume players are seeing the same thing.
My pre-rakeback winrate is 0bb/100. Rake at my stakes is around 12bb/100, which is high compared to other rooms. Looking at the field database (~40M hands), I can't find a single reg with 100k+ hands who's positive pre-RB. So my entire profit comes from rakeback (50% at my tier), not from a real edge at the tables.
I'm not saying it's rigged, with rake at this level, it's mathematically expected that even good regs will run close to zero pre-RB in a recreational-heavy field, since rake eats most of the edge over the fish. It's more a question about the room's economic model: is it a deliberate choice to keep rake high so that reg profit only flows through the RB program (a lever the room controls and can adjust), rather than a lower rake where regs would have a real, RB-independent edge?
Questions for the community:
Is anyone else with a large sample (100k+ hands) actually positive pre-RB on Coin right now?
Does anyone have precise rake numbers at other stakes/formats to compare?
Has your RB rate changed recently (lower %, different structure) for any of you?
Thanks in advance, curious to hear other data points before drawing any conclusions.
10bb/100 with all fees (2bb is fee for splashpots so you dont get any rb from it)
I mean... field of crushers is relatively small and those good enough usually know they have to move out of mid stakes (because of rake) as quickly as possible, so will take shots aggressively.
In total, I'm not convinced this is the case. I am also not convinced that anyone should aspire to stay at 1/2 for this amount of hands (or that Coin wants to foster an ecology where people do that). They want upwards movement.
I mean... field of crushers is relatively small and those good enough usually know they have to move out of mid stakes (because of rake) as quickly as possible, so will take shots aggressively.In total, I'm not convinced this is the case. I am also not convinced that anyone should aspire to stay at 1/2 for this amount of hands (or that Coin wants to foster an ecology where peop
You don’t think players play a stake more than 100k hands? What are you talking about?
I mean... field of crushers is relatively small and those good enough usually know they have to move out of mid stakes (because of rake) as quickly as possible, so will take shots aggressively.In total, I'm not convinced this is the case. I am also not convinced that anyone should aspire to stay at 1/2 for this amount of hands (or that Coin wants to foster an ecology where peop
Apart from this being a total nonsense statement for obvious reasons I'm assuming no needs explained to them. What does this have to do with there being 0 winners at 200nl?
You don’t think players play a stake more than 100k hands? What are you talking about?
Good question.
Sincerely, someone who has well over a million hands at 1/2.
Dont worry guys. I've been told that higher rake will lead to the goldilocks zone where regs leave the site and suddenly all fish are much better off. Just need the regs to give up and it will be a veritable utopia
don't they offer 30-35% rb?
thank god they at least give rb
but i assume all these lines due to the rake?
don't they offer 30-35% rb?
thank god they at least give rb
but i assume all these lines due to the rake?
We previously did but then switched to a rewards program in April, from which some players report earning up to 85%, for example:
I have probably played on majority of sites over the years and haven't seen such numbers. Many players don't like to mention stuff like this because it might hurt their bottom line. I make an exception for greater good I guess, but since launch of new soft I haven't had a month with less than 80% RB.
sorry was AFK last few days. 100, 200 like 50/50, then maybe 2k hands of 500nlThis site is one of the best spots online right now. The regs here aren't real regs. like random no names ive never seen before sitting the lobby that play like regs for maybe 40 or 50 hands before they start punting hard EV blunders.The rakes are huge yea but the RB seems to be megatron like 80% or
June I raked 2850, got 2848 coins accumulated.
Rewards earned for the month was 2418, and then i got 56$ from missions. not sure if they are auto included into rewards or they went str8 to my cashier??
but anyways, this is like 85%+ RB no?
anyone else tracking there rake/rb over the month? what sort of numbers are you ppl seeing?
The rewards program (CoinRewards) has had some updates each month, and there is one final update next month in August, which may reintroduce some flat rakeback back into the rewards.
Mainly though the rewards come from leaderboards which are easy to place on and flat in payout structure, alongside some other features.
We previously did but then switched to a rewards program in April, from which some players report earning up to 85%, for example:The rewards program (CoinRewards) has had some updates each month, and there is one final update next month in August, which may reintroduce some flat rakeback back into the rewards. Mainly though the rewards come from leaderboards which are easy to p
Some players may hit that. How many actually do as a percentage of your player pool? Splash pots have been nerfed severely and I believe you have transitioned to this model to intentionally hide the amount of rake back players are getting.
I don't expect you to answer these directly, but if you do, kudos. I only have one question that I would like answered:
If you are giving back so much rake, why rake so much to begin with? What's the point of engineering and building out a complex system like this instead of just offering lower rake to begin with?
Yeah, please give us the source so we can just sort out the datamining issue so no one can know how much are we ripping off people
Look at this coinpoker bot lol
Some players may hit that. How many actually do as a percentage of your player pool? Splash pots have been nerfed severely and I believe you have transitioned to this model to intentionally hide the amount of rake back players are getting. I don't expect you to answer these directly, but if you do, kudos. I only have one question that I would like answered:
Someone needs to pay those influencers promoting their generous model, just look the Coinpoker OP post, people should be grateful to play on such a charity of a site
*****
Edit/MH: See: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/167/p...They post on here and are like the #1 google search. Notice that the coinpoker rep hasn’t even refuted the information I provided. I wouldn’t bet my life that the data is 100% accurate, but I suspect that it is squa
The example of a winning player is ~40k hands. Strange response. I would love to hear the question above me answered as well (why prioritize rake?).
The example of a winning player is ~40k hands. Strange response. I would love to hear the question above me answered as well (why prioritize rake?).
It's an example of the rewards percentage he earned, not a comment on his winrate. That was a one month sample.
In other months he posted e.g. 20k hands at 108% rakeback (may have ran good in Splash Pots for example) and 3.6k hands at 86% rakeback:
PT4 updated today. I can import the downloadable hands from Coin now.AprilI played 20015 hands. I was able to Import 20001 hands. 14 errors not imported.My rake paid according to PT4 now is $3562. My coin rewards that i cashed for April was $3856.54...lol?MaySo far ive played 3637 hands, I was able to import 3636 hands. 1 was an error.My rake paid according to PT4 now is $798.7
Why is the site itself posting speculations about what the effective expected RB is? Obviously you know the exact numbers, why not share it instead if you feel the need to silence the critics?
Because they know the effective rakeback is low due to low engagement with the hoops. They have a few people fully engaged with the hoops and hitting splash pots to boot so they focus on that.
They could just lower the rake, give flat, and obviously the average player would be better off
It's an example of the rewards percentage he earned, not a comment on his winrate. That was a one month sample.
In other months he posted e.g. 20k hands at 108% rakeback (may have ran good in Splash Pots for example) and 3.6k hands at 86% rakeback:
splashpot is not a rakeback, you pay fee for it. Why do you post fake information?
It's an example of the rewards percentage he earned, not a comment on his winrate. That was a one month sample.
In other months he posted e.g. 20k hands at 108% rakeback (may have ran good in Splash Pots for example) and 3.6k hands at 86% rakeback:
June also...Raked 2850. RB from rewards 2418, rewards from missions was $56
July so far. raked 1442, Rewards at 1090, and have missions still not finished but equity in that is about 255. prob be able to complete it also.
PLO4 mid (200-500), playing European afternoon, evening, and night until morning
april 37k hands 57% rakeback (inc. splash as rb, and splash fee as rake)
may 23k 54%
june 24k 53%
random 80%+ rb wizards pls let us know which game and when u play!!!
splashpot is not a rakeback, you pay fee for it. Why do you post fake information?
because they know people calculate it wrong and think splash pots are form of rakeback, meanwhile they pay 2bb fee for it
Coin adds $ to the Splash Pots, so they are a form of rakeback, no?
It's a 0.1bb fee per pot then it's randomly redistributed, it's net zero sum so no one 'pays' for that part either.
Then on top of that Coin was adding over $2 million a month to the Splash Pots at the time (April).
