No one is winning at 200nl on CoinPoker

hmm? how do you come to this conclusion?

I also liked how coinpoker rep gives numbers from late April, even though those numbers have been adjusted down since then, also getting rid of the 15% flat RB for everyone.

can you show 50NL data please... i hope it's still profit after rakeback

Fair point, I phrased that too strongly.

The screenshot only shows pre-rakeback results, so we can’t know how many are winning post-rakeback without actual rewards/races/missions data.

What I meant is: some players losing pre-rb could still be profitable after CoinRewards, and by alot since rakeback is huge.

The replacement for the 15% is of a higher value - the Missions feature. That began in July.

Next month this will be revisited again as well, potentially with some form of flat rakeback.

Here is some feedback from players stating their Missions are worth more than that 15%.

The leaderboards in July were also increased in value at the same time as that change.

These missions are on a discretionary basis aren’t they ? No player knows when or what they will receive correct ? No way to know if they put the time in what or if they will be “rewarded” retrospectively?

So after three months of flat 15% RB for MTT players, you get to act like heroes because you finally gave them something back?

And adding 20% to your leaderboards when the player pool has "grown" by more doesn't make you more generous either.

I'm sure you will come back with more cherry picked data, after all, more rake is better....

Missions are assigned to all players. The type of Mission and requirements vary by player.

My own data also shows that it becomes difficult to win at the table on CoinPoker after the rake increases. But I like Coinpoker and I believe they will lower the rake rate.

These are H2Note data from March-June, mixed pool data of 100NL and 200NL.There's no need to list all the results here, but I can say that my database shows an average loss rate of 7bb/100.

There are also players on my site that I suspect are bots. If you're wondering how I identify them, I don't want to go into detail, but I've spent a lot of time on TYLER's thread about bots on this forum, and I know how they play, which sizes they use and where. These were GG bots in the recent past. Except for the open size, all their actions are the same. I don't see many of them in the lobby anymore, but I do see other players playing in the same style, and since there's no HUD, I haven't included them in the statistics. They've decreased in number, but they're still there.There are 82 players on the list, and these are their results.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha

They wont.

Show me the incentive, and I will show you the outcome.

This is actually the business model. It's the same as GG does. They obfuscate the rewards in many tiers to make them opaque so that you can't track them or it makes them difficult to track. One guy in the discord had to use Claude Code to vibe code a dashboard to help track it! The big lever for them is that they can adjust the rewards as they see fit and squeeze you, whereas just lowering the rake doesn't give them that option. Since the inception, the rewards have slowly been reduced.

This is their response:

While I agree that recs like the gamification and getting rewards directly in their box, or even completing missions, leaderboards are the absolute worst part of the site. Leaderboards leads to nitty players playing too many tables and timing out all the time, making the experience worse for recs.

It's laughable that the rep is saying that they have decentivized rat holers and bumhunters because the data I have seen simply doesn't support that conclusion. Go to the lobby at any given time and sit one of the tables with 1 player on it. They might play a few orbits if you are an unknown, but once they realize you're a reg, they quickly sit out. If Coin is serious about people starting tables and not bumhunting, they need to do something that actually incentivizes that behavior.

Anyways, I guess I have made my point and will move on. The only way to illicit change is to vote with your wallet, which for many of us, means we don't really have any other options.

Why don't you share your own data instead of showing a 50k hand sample from a player or a bunch of discord snippets?

The other guy who 'won two months' is a streamer with a coinpoker code and 16k hands total in those graphs

You are being disrespectful to the intelligence of the poker community.

You obviously know the numbers or are you just randomly adjusting your rewards program based on discord posts ?

I wouldn't put it past them to operate their own discord accounts posing as happy players. None of those snippets provided any data besides "trust me bro"

Clickout Media are involved in ownership and have a very questionable ethics in other businesses to say the least.

I guess. I thought the discussion about players moving up stakes was more interesting than Community vs. Coin on rake, which is every Coin thread at this point.

Please enlighten as more

To be fair it is only one player, I wonder how many tables he is playing. It seems since this month with the widened prize pool my rewards have went down. I play anywhere from 6-12 tables, just depending, with 8 being perfect, but games die so fast, you have to constantly be looking for new ones if you want the best games available. I imagine he's playing at least 50nl I've played a bit against the player, but you won't be getting these rewards % at lower than 50 and even at 50 still not unless your playing my guess 12+ tables.

I do need to add the disclaimer I'm trying to go for the big mission, which I don't think I will hit only playing 25nl, at 50 would of been doable. That definitely is the deciding factor.

Posting as someone who's played a lot on coin over the past year and a half, but has switched sites to play on WPTgold and haven't played on coin at all the past few weeks.

Since the new rake changes, I've won at about 4.3bb/100 over 113k hands at 100nl. I think the games are beatable, but only with strict game selection and I won't reg battle whatsoever anymore.

I've looked at regs I've played more than 1k hands with in that time frame and combined them into a single profile. Since March, regs are losing at about 5bb/100 (EV). (Prior to this, regs were losing at about 1.9bb/100)

I'm paying about 11.5bb/100 in rake at 100, and after the mega splash pots were removed, was receiving about 53% rakeback. (I don't know what the new numbers are with the flat 15% removed). So my effective rake in that time was about 5.5bb/100. Prior to the new rake, I was paying about 5.8bb/100 in rake and receiving a flat 31.5% in rakeback, which came out to an effective rake of 3.9bb/100. With leaderboards, however, I was paying about 1bb/100.

I've chosen to leave the site, even though I have been a winning player on it, because I am unconvinced about the viability of the games long term. Higher stakes aren't particularly more attractive with the new rake (1k is paying something like 7-8bb/100). On top of this, the constant changes to the rake back structure make it really difficult to want to continue playing. Every month the rake back structure is changed, so you have no idea if next month you're going to get a huge rake back cut without any warning (like what happened earlier when Mega Splash Pots were removed and we dropped from about 75% to 53% overnight). If Coin were to come out and tell us "We're trying to make rakeback X% and figuring out the best way to do that," I'd be much more apt to stay on the site, but not having any clue about what rake I'm going to be playing next month makes Coin very unattractive long term.

Graph on coin 100 since March

Lifetime Graph at 100nl and 200nl

Regs I have 1k hands w/ since March

how many tables are you usually playing or were you playing? At around say 75 hands an hour per table, you'd only be making like $19/hr with 6 tables and would need as many as 12 to make $38/hr, assuming your winrate stayed the same with that many tables. That's not that enticing. I can see why you left. Thanks for sharing.

I was usually playing 8 tables. W/ my winrate + rakeback it came out to about $56/hr

Guys who say they don't see a problem with the system encapsulate exactly the current problem, which is:

Sites actively trying to make you believe that winning money in poker before rakeback shouldn't feel normal. And I say that's fkn BS. I think it's safe to assume that almost everyone in this thread started playing the game because they believed they could become WINNING players. Winning at the tables is the cornerstone part of the game. Trying to scam people into believing otherwise is what sites like Coin and GG are doing here.

As OP said, there's only one way, realistically, to fight it and that's to vote with your wallet. Only after losing some liquidity and seeing their rake $/hr going down sites MAYBE reconsider their politics.

so you have one of those confusing hidden reward systems that are banned with regulated sites. Even tho you likely have low effective rake its not surprising a lot of players get confused and think they are paying higher rake then they are. I highly recommend a flat % based on tiers with no pvi so its straight forward at least if you don't want confusion. I think the bigger problem in online poker rake and rakeback is transparency

Well said, I completely agree

Slashing rewards or pvi for winning players goes against the core of poker and the poker dream... The battle to be the best, to always progress, to outplay your opponents. These traits are now being discouraged but it should be the heart of the every poker player.

When I first logged in on a pokersite I saw regulars at 5knl and wanted to reach it too someday. And thats only because these were players that were beating the highest stakes, not because they had an awesome rakeback deal.

It's also no good because it's impossible to tell if even what they are promoting/marketing is actually happening .

Regardless of how bad "Coinrewards" is perceived who could actually say even what's promoted is occurring

One player comes along with "I don't seem to be getting much / anything" there will be a few screenshots of someone claiming 80% and you must just be on the wrong side of it

It's completely unaudited or able to be - so it's "Increased rake , no rakeback but here's some rewards and just trust us bro" - and a lot of it is at their discretion/whim

And they are saying (as attached) that

"The replacement for the 15% is of a higher value - the Missions feature. That began in July"

Remember EVERY player got 15% before

"Here is some feedback from players stating their Missions are worth more than that 15%."

So what about those that have no missions

It's all just marketing BS