Private game in public cardroom
A player in one of my local cardrooms got them to start a 1/3/6 "private" game a couple weeks ago. As far as I can tell he is in charge of the list to start the game but after the game is started they open up the list and anyone can put their name up to join the game. I usually play at a different cardroom but I heard about the game a week ago so decided to go check it out on Sunday. The floor told me that it was a private game that runs Mondays and Thursdays but they could put me on the list to get in after the game starts as people leave. Also one of the dealers tells me it's big action I think you're too nitty to play in the game.
So I arrive on Monday and the game is going and I get my name on the list. While I'm playing 1/3 waiting for the 1/3/6 game I find out that the player who is running the game is someone I kind of got into it with last time I played at this cardroom 3 months ago.
I don't exactly remember the details of the hand but he made a snarky comment to the dealer that he was gonna get all my chips if the river didn't come in a way that allowed me to get there. I took exception to this and was like dude I'm right here and he was all like I wasn't talking to you I was talking to the dealer. A couple hands later he called a double barrel with 33 on quite a wet board with like 4 overcards. After winning the river at showdown I decided to needle him a bit and was like "that's a pretty disrespectful turn call". He got pretty pissed off at this and started threatening to fight me outside and told me not to **** with him. I tried my best to diffuse the situation and he calmed down a bit but he never really apologized for going off on me and things were a bit tense for the rest of the session.
So anyways I find out this guy is running the game and I'm like oh crap he probably doesn't like me after that interaction. I end up getting into the game from the list and the guy who organizes it is already gone. I find out they are doing $8 dealer tip per person every 30 minutes on the dealer change. "Voluntary" but I don't want to be the only nit not doing it so I pony up. You don't have to tip the dealer for pots you win with this understanding but obviously I'm not averaging 16 pots an hour. Game was very loose splashy; there were basically no pros and only a few other players that were thinking none of which were really scary to me. I ended up sun running and going on an insane heater and crushing the game for $3700.
I mostly just play regular public games in the casino so I'm looking for advice here.
1. How to approach getting into the game in the future given that I basically got into a fight with the guy who runs it in our only previous interaction. I still don't understand how it works I guess it is a private game to start but once it gets going it's no longer private and they just have a normal first come first serve list like any other table at the cardroom.
2. Is this game still profitable with %10 up to $5 rake plus an additional $16 per hour time rake going to dealer tips? I could probably try refusing to pay the 8 dollars but not sure it's worth the reputational hit.
EDIT: Mods Also wasn't sure which forum I should post this in so if it should be moved to casino/cardroom or a different one my apologies feel free to move it
13 Replies
wasn't sure which forum I should post this in so if it should be moved to casino/cardroom or a different one my apologies feel free to move it
Yeah, I'm not sure either.
How good is this game? Generally speaking I always tip $1 and maybe $5-$10 if I win some insane 4k pot, and I'm never winning 16 hands per hour so this rake is too much. But if I can secure a spot on a lineup for a great game every week or whatever it might be worth it.
What normal stakes do you play, how many hours have you played, and what is your BB/hr winrate? I would extrapolate the same BB/hr winrate then subtract the $16/hr (adjust a dollar or two or whatever you think you average per hour for tipping).
It's probably beatable, but you'd also probably do better at a 2/5 game without the extra time rake.
Getting invited into the game may be a challenge... but then again, the organizer may invite you because he is eager to stack you out of revenge. At the same time, if these are all his buddies it is entirely possible he invites you in just so they can collude against you, so be wary.
If you do get in then you'll want to be someone who they want to invite back. Be fun, tell stories, buy beers for everyone (I actually do ice cream rather than beers, but w/e), laugh when the bad beats come, etc. Bring value to the experience for everyone else.
Taking the story at face value, the game runner sounds like a tool. I'd have to think the game was insanely profitable to feel any motivation to even play at the same table with the guy, much less try to clear the air with him in some way.
My complete lack of f**ks to give would prevent me from apologizing to him. But if he's trying to keep the game going and profitable for himself, he might be willing to call it water under the bridge if you offered to bring some deep-pocketed and action-oriented players to the game.
I wouldn't provide him with their contact info, and I'd want to be certain they understood the basic dynamics of the situation, such that they'd know I'd be unhappy hearing that they gave the game runner their contact info and started playing in the game without me.
If I knew 4-5 guys like that, I might just try to get my own private game going, and then start trying to recruit the players in his game to join mine.
Eff that guy. What's he going to do about it? Complain to the floor?
If all else fails, try to stink-palm the guy.
What normal stakes do you play, how many hours have you played, and what is your BB/hr winrate? I would extrapolate the same BB/hr winrate then subtract the $16/hr (adjust a dollar or two or whatever you think you average per hour for tipping).It's probably beatable, but you'd also probably do better at a 2/5 game without the extra time rake.Getting invited into the game may be
I don't play online so my sample size is small. Prior to this year I was at 9 bb/hr over 1200 hrs lifetime in the past 8 years combined at mostly 1/3 with a few shots at 3/5 and I was losing at 3/5. Last year I shot took 3/5 the most and I was -4bb/hr over 126 hours. The 3/5 game is definitely significantly tougher than 1/3 and this 1/3/6 game was much juicier than the average 3/5 that I've seen.
This year I'm sunrunning like crazy. 24 bb/hr at 350 hours of 1/3 and 18 bb/hr at 43 hours of 3/5, 1/3/6; obviously insignificant sample size there. Pretty confident that I'm a significant winner at 1/3 but right now I'm basically breakeven lifetime at the higher stakes. Granted sample size is still tiny so hard to make any significant determinations. However, I do think this game is significantly juicier than the normal 3/5. I guess I only need to be making like 3 bb/hr more at this game than 3/5 for it to be worth it.
Taking the story at face value, the game runner sounds like a tool. I'd have to think the game was insanely profitable to feel any motivation to even play at the same table with the guy, much less try to clear the air with him in some way.My complete lack of f**ks to give would prevent me from apologizing to him. But if he's trying to keep the game going and profitable for hims
Yeah I think it's a situation where this guy is just trying to get all the action players in a game with him so he can profit. Only have a few hours with him so unsure about how good he is but he's definitely not a huge whale and I suspect that while he definitely has leaks he might be a winning player. I don't particularly want to play with him but there were a bunch of other action players in the game that I do want to play with. I haven't even talked with him since our interaction a couple months ago; like I said I only found out he was the one running the game after I got there to play it on Monday.
As for organizing my own private game I'm just not at the point where I have built social connections with other action players. I usually just focus on playing when I'm at the cardroom and also this guy is a huge regular at this room and I usually play at a different room. So I don't know that I have the ability to start my own game or really bring in action players.
Also lmao at the stink palm video
At my local room there was a private game just as described. One person ran the list. I don't think there was anything terribly shady except that there was assigned seating and the best pro was always on the organizer's immediate right.
I played in it occasionally for a couple of years because it was the only 2/5 (2 days/week) and 5/5 (1 day / wk) that could be found running early weekdays without a 2 or 4 hr drive to a full service casino.
I dropped out because over time, they learned all my best tricks. I went from a winner to break even in that game.
But that wasn't the worst part. The organizer had a few regs at every game that were toxic. They were regular losers but I play for fun most of all, and spending 7-8 hrs a days with the same miserable jerks isn't my definition of fun.
There was an 80 yo guy who loved to talk non stop. On multiple occasions he threatened to take me out in the parking lot to fight because I had unacceptable opinions on important topics like baseball.
Is the high tip drop, a payoff to the dealers? What are the dealers being paid off to do?
Usually private or semiprivate casino games are high stakes NLHE, not 1-3-6. They don't let in GTO nerds. If you are a reg, you need to be friendly and talkative and play somewhat loose. It seems sort of shady, but rich amateurs don't want to play GTO bots. The highest stakes games are mixed or PLO, where it is harder to play like a bot.
Life is too short to play in a game run by an a**hole or anyone who threatens violence. I'm not interested in having a great session and then being hijacked in the garage on my way out.
I won't even delve into all the conflicts of interest these games cause with dealers, floor etc
What are the dealers getting paid about $130/hour in tips to do? Why was he so angry when you remarked on his strange call down?
Splashy games are very profitable when you are on a heater as there is a lot more money in the pot. If you are running average the extra $10 or so per hour in dealer tips starts to matter a great deal more. BTW you admit "I decided to needle him" so the person that created the animosity was you. You were not making a comment you were deliberately trying to create trouble.
I wouldn’t worry about it, i doubt you’ll get invited back
