Patrick Leonard stating the hard truth "you cannot longer make it in online poker"
Patrick leonard, one of the best online mtt players sayed a couple of day ago this reality, literally stated on the podc
You're right but it's also the worst example possible. Vancouver and surrounding areas have some of the most expensive real estate ever. Hell people making 200k there don't live a comfortable life.
The idea that 100k in most US states/cities is ''garbage wage'' is just laughable. Sure if you live in the middle of LA it's nothing. It's also not representative of all of America.
That's a fair point but its no longer just a Vancouver/surrounding area thing. I agree with your point in terms of purchasing power being entirely location dependent. I'm sure $100k goes a long way if your living in Jackson, Mississippi.
why can't a poker pros wife work just like a mcdonalds employees wife? comparing one salary to two makes little to no sense
When people are describing $100k/year being more then enough to raise a family they are referring to household income. This can be made up of 1 or 2 people working. My point is that in some places, two people earning the lowest wage legally possible gets you 70% of the way there. And there not exactly living a life of excess with those careers. However in fairness, I'm sure working at McDonalds and reporting to someone who is likely still in high school provides a less stressful living then the effort and hours that are required to earn the same playing online poker in 2025.
I'm currently raising a family in Canada. Weaker dollar, higher cost of living and more expensive real estate in most of the country. I know the cost involved and you're still wrong. In most of the US you'll absolutely be able to raise a family on 100k.
We just went from 100k to 60k......
Okay so breakdown your expenses - would love to hear. I'm raising a family of 4 myself so know the costs involved - 100k post tax is probably around 75k-80k for most. 0% chance you can get by on 6500/mo with a family of 4.
Okay so breakdown your expenses - would love to hear. I'm raising a family of 4 myself so know the costs involved - 100k post tax is probably around 75k-80k for most. 0% chance you can get by on 6500/mo with a family of 4.
bro, I also am the sole earner to a wife and 2 kids and ofc you can get by with 6500/month, it’s not going to be a life of luxury but you’d be fine
Okay so breakdown your expenses - would love to hear. I'm raising a family of 4 myself so know the costs involved - 100k post tax is probably around 75k-80k for most. 0% chance you can get by on 6500/mo with a family of 4.
Just lol honestly. Yeah you won't be living large and eating lobster tails for dinner but the idea a family of 4 can't survive on 6.5k/7k a month is just lol.
Good luck man. Clearly you need it.
That's a fair point but its no longer just a Vancouver/surrounding area thing. I agree with your point in terms of purchasing power being entirely location dependent. I'm sure $100k goes a long way if your living in Jackson, Mississippi.
Yeah tbh Canada as a whole is ****ed lol.
bro, I also am the sole earner to a wife and 2 kids and ofc you can get by with 6500/month, it’s not going to be a life of luxury but you’d be fine
I'd be curious to see your expense break down. 1/3 of your income right off the bat goes to rent/mortgage - hopefully you own as renting is really throwing money away. Then we have utilities, food, phone, internet, car payments, car insurance, health insurance, household expenses, maintenance, etc,etc. I mean great for you if you can get by on that kind of money - I can't where I live.
Your figures are WAY off Fink if you think that is 2.5x lol. Poker players don't seem to have a grasp of what decent income is anymore. Their view is either way too low or way to high, depending on the income they make and stakes they play. Additionally, all this talk of 'you can live an OK life making xxx amount' is an awful way to think to begin with. Is that the motivation of the vast majority of poker players? Make just enough money to live OK? Money isn't everything but ffs, have some motivation to excel and live comfortably for yourself and so you have something to pass along to your family, kids, etc.
I don't have the 2024 numbers yet and 2025 is going to be exponentially higher, but the national median income limit in the US in 2023 was $80, 600. It is usually around a 4% to 5% increase each year, so you are looking at close to 85K for 2024 and most likely over 90K for 2025. That is also taking into huge parts of the US that has much lower income medians, which no one really wants to live.
On the East Coast, I will use the MD/VA area as an example, so we are not talking about New York and some of the richer urban areas up North. In the average areas, like Baltimore which is not a great place to live, the median income limit is $122, 200/yr. In the higher cost areas, like Annapolis or Northern VA the median income limit is $152, 900/yr.
So yes, making 100K/yr is not great living in the vast majority of places in the US that you want to live in when you have a family and expenses. If you are making this playing cards, you also don't have benefits, healthcare, IRA/401K, etc. Sure, you can rent or buy a small house with 100K and squeak by with nothing to show for yourself at the end, but man is that a sad existence, especially when your stuck in a chair 8+ hours a day.
Poker should be a fun, side hustle for 99% of poker players but it is not for way too many. If you make 80K/yr grinding as a full time poker player, congrats, your life sucks and has no meaning. Sorry if that is harsh.
**This view is excluding poorer third world countries
I mean I kind of agree, I don’t think you should play poker for much more than 2-3 yrs if you can’t get to at least 150k/yr on average in north america
Your figures are WAY off Fink if you think that is 2.5x lol. Poker players don't seem to have a grasp of what decent income is anymore. Their view is either way too low or way to high, depending on the income they make and stakes they play. Additionally, all this talk of 'you can live an OK life making xxx amount' is an awful way to think to begin with.
Is that what I said? That my motivation was to just get by? I responded to some random who said ''100k is garbage''. He's wrong. Simple.
As for the rest. What ever.
I'd be curious to see your expense break down. 1/3 of your income right off the bat goes to rent/mortgage - hopefully you own as renting is really throwing money away. Then we have utilities, food, phone, internet, car payments, car insurance, health insurance, household expenses, maintenance, etc,etc. I mean great for you if you can get by on that kind of money - I can't where I live.
Exactly. Only took you 8 posts but you finally got there.
Maybe struck a nerve with yourself? Not sure. Not me though if that's what you're implying. Just amused it took you this long to finally get it.
I still stand by my original statement - maybe somewhere in the midwest 100k does well, but those areas are not where I'd want to live. Maybe you live in a remote area in Canada in a small ranch barely getting by - that's great for you, but for others who want more 100k won't cut it.
I still stand by my original statement - maybe somewhere in the midwest 100k does well, but those areas are not where I'd want to live. Maybe you live in a remote area in Canada in a small ranch barely getting by - that's great for you, but for others who want more 100k won't cut it.
Hey, when you're wrong, the best thing to do is double down.
Lets get back to the topic at hand since we'll never agree.
Pads is an idiot.
my guess is for pads "making it" means actually making really good money from poker, like I dunno at least 250k+ a year?
wouldn't say you can't do it anymore but it's pretty hard
Tbf he's probably not all that wrong in regards to making it in poker. I'm not sure what the annual number should be but it's probably not as easy anymore especially in 2025 with the never ending issues online poker has.
I mostly think he's an idiot for his involvement in the Nacho ''scandal'' which isn't what this thread is about I just realized.
all that talk about income and nobody is touching the real issue
health insurance and other benefits that come from those other jobs is a significant amount
to factor in paying for coverage for your family as well as things like paid time off, maternity leave, matching 401k etc a poker player making 100k a year is probably doing about the same as someone making 50k
it's huge when your employer pays that and not you
all that talk about income and nobody is touching the real issue
health insurance and other benefits that come from those other jobs is a significant amount
to factor in paying for coverage for your family as well as things like paid time off, maternity leave, matching 401k etc a poker player making 100k a year is probably doing about the same as someone making 50k
it's huge when your employer pays that and not you
When you work for someone you pay for health insurance - not necessarily at the same cost of being self employed but I've seen plenty of paychecks where some amount is taken out each check towards health insurance. Also when you work for yourself you generally have a better tax shelter where you can write off expenses - working for someone you can't. My friends wife makes 95k/year I believe - her take home after taxes,health insurance, etc is around 60k.
When you work for someone you pay for health insurance - not necessarily at the same cost of being self employed but I've seen plenty of paychecks where some amount is taken out each check towards health insurance. Also when you work for yourself you generally have a better tax shelter where you can write off expenses - working for someone you can't. My friends wife makes 95k/year I believe - her take home after taxes,health insurance, etc is around 60k.
bruh are you seriously trying to negate something based off a hunch based on some anecdotal evidence?
you could have googled all of this
furthermore, there's so many logical fallacies in here
this post above is the equivalent of someone saying AA>27o but then you jump in with "yes but sometimes 27o can win"
thats fair
I did see polk and other big name pros do a bankroll challenge within the last 3 yers and they easily moved upo stakes
My man, Polk did this challenge in 2017. Even then people were saying online is almost dead. I'm actually surprised it's lasted this long, but the window is all but shut.
