In other news
In the current news climate we see that some figures and events tend to dominate the front-pages heavily. Still, there a
Maybe your boomer brain isn't plastic enough to entertain inter categorical analogies. But there is nothing strange in using tools that advance human goals that occasionally cause the death of people (car) and compare them to tools that advance human goals and occasionaly cause the death of people (guns).They are strikingly similar actually. Your opposition to the analogy is t
The reason your stupid analogies fail is because they're childish. They're the sort of things an immature teenager thinks of before he attains any understanding of people, which is why posters here question your age. Frankly, its embarrassing to read.
A car is a mechanical object with fixed components and character so of course a German car remains a German car wherever it moves to. This obviously does not apply to people because by your own admission people change over time as they adopt more of the local culture (this is evident from you acknowledging that their descendants "become" a different nationality), and this insistence of yours on blood lines (which are largely irrelevant in a lot of European countries because of long histories of immigration) is more proof of your latent racism and fascism.
Re. Sinner - you view him as an Italian but said
"Like you have an eastern asian face you will be an immigrant and your children and grandchildren be forever and you will never be an italian"
which is contradictory as Sinner (tall, pale, very thin and ginger) by no means looks like any Italian anyone's ever seen and is almost the polar opposite in many ways of the archetypal Italian (very short and dark haired).
British motoring journalists used to complain that Italian cars were uncomfortable because the steering wheel was too far away considering how close to the body the pedals were and I'm sure Sinner would also have complained.
What could be more British than Sean Connery, in tweed hacking jacket, cavalry-twill trousers and desert boots, at the wheel of an Aston Martin?
Except only a tiny fraction of the British population has ever worn such clothes, and like most stereotypes of Britain it's largely built on myth and fantasy, much like John Major's fabled "cucumber sandwiches and the sound of leather on willow" or whatever tripe he was eulogising.
Cross-fertilisation. Both genetically and culturally, it adds strength and variety and it kind of works.
This is clearly true and Luciom hates it because it refutes his inchoate teenage ideas about racial purity that lie at the heart of his fascism.
I'm kinda leaning towards vehicles can become somewhat changed by the place they're in tbh. Exhibit A--the VW Bus once hippies got a hold of them 😀 But you could come up with other examples--engine swaps etc. that probably count.
All this arguing for pages when the easiest thing is to just remember the ethnicity-nationality split. Someone can be a British national without being ethnically British. So when people describe a second gen rwandan immigrants as British, they are referring to his nationality.
See Benjamin Disraeli, an ethnically Jewish man (whose family was from Italy lol) who became one of the most important prime ministers in British history.
Hmm. The Mini is, as everyone knows, a British car, made in Britain. Except the firm is now owned by BMW of Germany, as is the Rolls-Royce brand for cars -- the real Rolls-Royce of course makes jet engines and licenses its name for cars, and the former Rolls-Royce Motors, spun off from the original company in 1971, is now called Bentley Motors and owned by Volkswagen. The RR ri
You are describing equivalents of people with grandparents of 4 different countries. Can be great, can be terrible, can be absolutely normal, no one is claiming it's necessarily better or worse.
But we all can agree that if your grandparents are one from turkey, one from japan, one from germany and one from the philippines, then you are not a single-ethnicity/culture person in any way and claiming you are would be a disgrace and a lie. A travesty.
And you would certainly not be british if with those 4 grandparents you happened to be born in the UK
Yes if you’re not ethnically British you’re not ethnically British. I’m not sure why you thought anyone thinks otherwise. If they don’t believe that British ethnicity exists in general then obviously no one is ethnically British so the same applies.
Yes if you’re not ethnically British you’re not ethnically British. I’m not sure why you thought anyone thinks otherwise. If they don’t believe that British ethnicity exists in general then obviously no one is ethnically British so the same applies.
Jalfrezi doesn't, jalfrezi wants us to talk about the son of 2 rwandas refugees, born in the UK 2 years after they came in, raised there by them, as identically british for all aspects to someone whose 4 grandparents were born in the UK and fought ww2/ paid the price for ww2 , when he goes and slaughters little ACTUALLY BRITISH GIRLS like a monster.
He wants us to count that horrendous crime basically impossible for AN ACTUAL BRITISH HUMAN BEING to commit, as a native crime. He doesn't accept we treat that individual as an immigrant, an alien form of human life with nothing to do with british people, who assassinated actual real british human beings as an enemy imported from outside which could have been prevented with different immigration policies (not taking in random people from the third world).
this is a different map that we almost never see. How many children PER MOTHER. So women who have none don't count.
Italy here does worse than it does with normal fertility rates, the USA does better.
So in Italy, we could improve things by fixing problems for women who end up only having 1 child.
While in the USA, the problem is motivating women who have none to have some. Those that for whatever set of reasons decide to have children, overall have plenty enough,.
Jalfrezi doesn't, jalfrezi wants us to talk about the son of 2 rwandas refugees, born in the UK 2 years after they came in, raised there by them, as identically british for all aspects to someone whose 4 grandparents were born in the UK and fought ww2/ paid the price for ww2 , when he goes and slaughters little ACTUALLY BRITISH GIRLS like a monster.He wants us to count that hor
I think he’s saying that if you have British citizenship, you’re a British national. Isn’t that how it works in Britain? I’m not aware of any process they have for removing people’s citizenship because they committed a heinous crime.
It seems like there’s a disconnect between the categories that you two are talking about. That’s why I thought it was helpful to introduce that distinction.
As it stands I don’t see anything he said as being incorrect when we approach them from the definition he is using. He is talking about immigrants in terms of nationality, you are talking about immigrants in terms of genetics. I imagine that whether or not people use immigrant in the ways you’re each talking about is just an empirical question, so not particularly interesting.
I personally think it depends on the context. Immigrants themselves in the US use the term “second generation immigrant” or “third generation immigrant” to clarify their different experience from people who don’t fall in those categories. I imagine they might say “I’m from a family of immigrants” and have different ideas of whether that means they identify with the immigrant experience or not.
JHe wants us to count that horrendous crime basically impossible for AN ACTUAL BRITISH HUMAN BEING to commit, as a native crime..
Just listen to this racist moron who's never heard of Thomas Hamilton or even Dunblane, where he killed 16 kids and a teacher and wounded 15 others.
Utter clown of a poster who we should all just be pointing and laughing at, rather than taking seriously.
I think he’s saying that if you have British citizenship, you’re a British national. Isn’t that how it works in Britain? I’m not aware of any process they have for removing people’s citizenship because they committed a heinous crime.It seems like there’s a disconnect between the categories that you two are talking about. That’s why I thought it was helpful to introduce that dis
The topic was, if you get citizenship are you still an immigrant or not? for him, it was a clear no. For me, if you are clearly an alien son of aliens you still are an immigrant even with legal citizenship (which gives you benefits and stuff, but you are still an immigrant)
The topic was, if you get citizenship are you still an immigrant or not? for him, it was a clear no. For me, if you are clearly an alien son of aliens you still are an immigrant even with legal citizenship (which gives you benefits and stuff, but you are still an immigrant)
I would think that anyone born in another country would remain an immigrant whether they became citizens or not.
But their children (born in the USA) would not be immigrants.
I would think that anyone born in another country would remain an immigrant whether they became citizens or not.
But their children (born in the USA) would not be immigrants.
In the USA (and in most northern and south american countries) there is the principle that you get citizenship at birth.
That's not the case almost everywhere else. The UK changed it laws to remove that like in the 80s, because they recognized it was an absurd principle which might have made sense when it was hard to travel, but when any pregnant mother****er can come, it's absurd, horrific, morally disgusting to guarantee a citizenship just because you happen to come out of the womb in the UK.
So given that specific choice by the sovereign parliament, it's hard to believe that being born there should mean anything at all.
The topic was, if you get citizenship are you still an immigrant or not? for him, it was a clear no. For me, if you are clearly an alien son of aliens you still are an immigrant even with legal citizenship (which gives you benefits and stuff, but you are still an immigrant)
I highly doubt that he would say that if you were given citizenship in another country you’re not an immigrant. It must be something else he was saying because that doesn’t sound right.
When someone says “I’m an immigrant” in the US, it doesn’t mean you’re not a citizen.
I think he was talking about the second generation, not the first generation.
I highly doubt that he would say that if you were given citizenship in another country you’re not an immigrant. It must be something else he was saying because that doesn’t sound right.
When someone says “I’m an immigrant” in the US, it doesn’t mean you’re not a citizen.
I think he was talking about the second generation, not the first generation.
We were. 2 complete aliens, 2 rwandans with no skillset matching demand in the UK, got accepting in because of "asylum" (they were actually part of the horrific regime but it doesn't matter).
They enter the country and very soon afterwards they have a black kid, their son, full rwandans genes, that they grow. That individual isn't british in any sense . He doesn't even born as a british citizen legally.
That individual, who incorporates exclusively rwandans genes and rwandans parental culture, then assassinates a lot of actually british girls (like little girls who had parents, grandparents and further ancestors who actually paid taxes and gave their blood for the united kingdom. Like actual members of that community).
Now jalfrezi wants to count those assassinations as if another actually british person did them, as statistics about NATIVE ASSASSINATION RATES, he doesn't want those monstrous killings of little innocent actually british girls to be counted as avoidable deaths caused by immigration
I bet if Luci came here as a first gen child across the sea by himself back in the good old days and essentially grew up here--he'd have claimed Actually TrueAmerican when he was older for sure 😀
I bet if Luci came here as a first gen child back across the sea by himself in the good old days and essentially grew up here--he'd have claimed Actually TrueAmerican when he was older for sure 😀
I mean i had a preferential route to get american citizenship since my father naturalized there and the ****ing hell i want to get a citizenship of a country that insists on having fiscal privileges on you even if you live abroad. That's one of the most fascist things that exist in the first world and i prefer to be a citizen of an american colony than an american citizen, thank you very much.
And again i say that as someone who could have been an american citizen through a preferential route. **** the IRS
We were. 2 complete aliens, 2 rwandans with no skillset matching demand in the UK, got accepting in because of "asylum" (they were actually part of the horrific regime but it doesn't matter).They enter the country and very soon afterwards they have a black kid, their son, full rwandans genes, that they grow. That individual isn't british in any sense . He doesn't even born as a
So the point here is that you want to be mad at an immigrant for killing little girls but you would be less mad if this was a genetically British person?
Why would it matter if you disagree on whether or not he is called an immigrant or not? I just really don’t understand the discussion you’re having. Obviously anyone who allows people into their country to live in it will know that some of those people will commit crimes, no? Is it that you don’t like asylum as a concept and want to end it?
And again i say that as someone who could have been an american citizen through a preferential route. **** the IRS
We could change the country--it's kinda beside the point anyway. And fwiw I believe all of us would probably feel the same way, for solid reasons, in that situation.
So the point here is that you want to be mad at an immigrant for killing little girls but you would be less mad if this was a genetically British person?Why would it matter if you disagree on whether or not he is called an immigrant or not? I just really don’t understand the discussion you’re having. Obviously anyone who allows people into their country to live in it will know
Ofc i would be less mad if it was an actual british person. Same as if my cousin does something wrong it's not the same as if a complete stranger does.
If the serial assassin is counted as a british person, we don't have tools anymore to measure how many assassinations (and crime in general) immigrants cause, which is exactly what jalfrezi wants, to make us unable to claim his preferred policies do increase crime massively.
For sure if you allow some people in, some crimes will be commited by them. But as long as you track them correctly, you stay able to judge if the choice of letting them in overall was a positive one or not, which is the whole issue. "are we letting in the right people"?
Now if the worst of them , being "second generation", are counted as british, that's kind of a scam right?
We could change the country--it's kinda beside the point anyway. And fwiw I believe all of us would probably feel the same way, for solid reasons, in that situation.
I lived in brazil 4 years a while ago and if i wanted to i could have got upon a path to citizenship. I didn't.
At the end there is an italian song (by a freaking genius songwriter who foreigners can't taste because he exclusivley sang and wrote in italian, Gaber from Genoa) which has these lines:
"io non mi sento italiano, ma per fortuna o purtroppo lo sono". "i don't feel italian, but luckly, or by misfortune, i am". And i can't be anything else. It would be a travesty.
Ofc i would be less mad if it was an actual british person. Same as if my cousin does something wrong it's not the same as if a complete stranger does. If the serial assassin is counted as a british person, we don't have tools anymore to measure how many assassinations (and crime in general) immigrants cause, which is exactly what jalfrezi wants, to make us unable to claim his
So the point is to be able to track racial/ethnic data when it comes to crime stats? Or specifically you want to track first/second gen? Because if we think that someone can never “truly” become British won’t you just be looking at the crime by ethnicity tracker?
or you are wanting a more detailed based on immigrant vs nonimmigrant and want to count 2nd gen as immigrant?
I lived in brazil 4 years a while ago and if i wanted to i could have got upon a path to citizenship. I didn't.
That's not related to the hypothetical though. Had you, for whatever reasons, traveled/ended up there entirely on your own as a child and basically lived your whole life there--would be a different scenario.
That's not related to the hypothetical though. Had you, for whatever reasons, traveled/ended up there entirely on your own as a child and basically lived your whole life there--would be a different scenario.
If i had a different life history, it wouldn't be me. I exist uniquely and exclusively because of who my ancestors were and my lived experiences.
No veil of ignorance makes any sense and we cannot pretend to be something else than what we specifically are. The is no luciom without exactly everything that happened to me, and it makes no sense to pretend otherwise.
That's why it's called a hypothetical 😀 There would still be enough of you in that little boy to speculate.
