Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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32075 Replies
I think that anyone with a shred of humanity is happy about the ceasefire. I think what you are doing is the thing that the internet kids call cope. thousands of people are still alive right now bc Trump was elected. maybe they die soon as many people seem to hope. but until then, I bet anyone who supports the Palestinians is happy that Trump won over Kamala.
so maybe wait until the mass murder resumes before smugly celebrating.
Victor, Trump hasn't done anything here that wasn't going to happen.
All he's doing now is making it clear he doesn't think Gazans belong in Gaza. Even your average Israeli isn't that hardcore.
I agree with the term "cope", but you're pulling a master class in it right now. But I don't need to convince anyone of it. They're watching this happen in real time itt as your hero disappoints you to levels none of us saw coming.
Israel has already stolen a lot of Syrian land the last few months.
their Al Qaeda proxies are cleansing the Alawites, Shia, and Christian and allowing Turkish Salafis to settle in the rest of Syria.
but Lebanon may be able to withstand the attempt at land theft given the fortitude of the Southern population and the weaponry of Hezbollah. both are good examples of why no people should ever make a deal with Israel or the USA.
Trump says Palestinians should leave Gaza permanently and US will ‘take over’ strip
lol I'm dead. I knew I'd be right about Donald, but this is another level!
not surprised of your glee of this
Victor, Trump hasn't done anything here that wasn't going to happen.
All he's doing now is making it clear he doesn't think Gazans belong in Gaza. Even your average Israeli isn't that hardcore.
I agree with the term "cope", but you're pulling a master class in it right now. But I don't need to convince anyone of it. They're watching this happen in real time itt as your hero disappoints you to levels none of us saw coming.
when this went down on Oct 7th, I was told by some progressive Zionists that the left wing view was to kick out all of the Palestinians in Gaza and the right wing view was to kill them all. I thought he was exaggerating or otherwise being flippant.
Even your average Israeli isn't that hardcore.
you might want to call them up and tell them they answered the survey wrong
The Jerusalem Post | JPost.com 
it never fails to amaze me how often you guys make assertions that have recently been utterly refuted.
None of those figures looks surprising. The hatred between the Israelis and the Palestinians isn't something that the rest of the world can comprehend. Americans are the most spoiled gluttoned twits on the planet bitching about laughable issues because they simply cant find anything else to do for fun.
We can't grasp why the Palestinians would fight the way they do, or why Israel would respond with such a magnitude of power.
Dude the glee isn't in what Trump is doing. He's a lunatic, and he's got a terrifying batty billionaire running things alongside him while people were previously crying "Soros!" before (like the billionaire thing mattered at all in the end).
The "glee" is that this was so obvious. This is one of the most skilled grifters you will ever see, in that so many people always fall for his crap.
Do I think Gazans should leave Gaza? Lol no. Not even the Israeli left, centre, or just right of centre believe that.
I just can't believe Trump lied his way into this spot AGAIN. Master manipulator, this guy.
Do I think Gazans should leave Gaza? Lol no. Not even the Israeli left, centre, or just right of centre believe that.
Trump is just saying inconvenient truths.
Gaza is too radicalized. They will never make peace with Israel. It just is what it is. And after 80 years of this, Israel is losing its patience and becoming radicalized too.
Palestinians leaving Gaza and getting on with living is the most practical solution at this point. I dont think it will happen because most of the rest of the world doesn't want it to happen for various reasons. But that doesn't mean Trump is wrong.
Trump is just saying inconvenient truths.
Gaza is too radicalized. They will never make peace with Israel. It just is what it is. And after 80 years of this, Israel is losing its patience and becoming radicalized too.
Palestinians leaving Gaza and getting on with living is the most practical solution at this point. I dont think it will happen because most of the rest of the world doesn't want it to happen for various reasons. But that doesn't mean Trump is wrong.
This line of thinking isn't Trumps. Many people have had this line of thinking and explained it with needed nuance.
Trump is just mouth piecing for Netanyahu here. There was an undertone of they will leave or die.
This line of thinking isn't Trumps. Many people have had this line of thinking and explained it with needed nuance.
Trump is just mouth piecing for Netanyahu here. There was an undertone of they will leave or die.
Whoever you attribute the idea to, that doesn't mean it isn't the correct analysis of how this most likely plays out without some sort of paradigm shift.
Palestinians just leaving Gaza is the most practical way to resolve everything and let everyone move on with their lives. But I dont see there being the necessary buy-in from the world, for various reasons.
Another thing about Trump to keep in mind. EVERYTHING is transactional for Trump. If this is all Netanyahu's idea, and Trump is going along; then he definitely expects something significant in return from Netanyahu/Israel.
--He just retweeted this promote himself and pat himself on the back, but this is the last 2 paragraphs of an article Richard Hanania wrote last January, arguing why Palestinians leaving Gaza is the most logical solution to the problem. And why there is no real hope Palestinians ever create a functional society.
...Where does that leave us? Again, the only path forward for Israel is continuing to kill Hamas leadership, and seeking the strategy of depopulating Gaza by trying to get someone else in the world to take the people of the enclave as refugees. There is growing evidence that the Israelis are taking my advice, and for the plan to be feasible one might only have to wait for a Republican president. If even a significant minority of Gazans goes elsewhere, it will make life much more difficult for Hamas and the Palestinian problem a lot more manageable, as part of a longer process of the Arabs losing hope of ever destroying Israel.
This path has many costs and dangers, but it strikes me as imminently more sensible than believing that Palestinian society could both change its attitude towards Jews and do so at the same time that it builds functioning institutions, accomplishing something that tends to be difficult for poor societies even under the most favorable conditions.
Always goes so well for countrues when the usa sends in the troops.
If it happens then good luck to the whole area when they decide to **** off again.
Another thing about Trump to keep in mind. EVERYTHING is transactional for Trump. If this is all Netanyahu's idea, and Trump is going along; then he definitely expects something significant in return from Netanyahu/Israel.
You vastly overestimate Trump’s ability to plan/transact. His MO is to throw a tantrum and disrupt with a fire hose of what amounts to brainstorming until someone gives him something, real or not, that he could claim as a victory.
This is because he gives zero shits about the cost of such disruptions as long as it doesn’t hurt him personally.
You vastly overestimate Trump’s ability to plan/transact. His MO is to throw a tantrum and disrupt with a fire hose of what amounts to brainstorming until someone gives him something, real or not, that he could claim as a victory.
This is because he gives zero shits about the cost of such disruptions as long as it doesn’t hurt him personally.
I dont think anything significant will happen with respect to moving significant number of Gazans out. But I think some minimal effort will be made by Trump with minimal returns, and he will expect loyalty from Netanyahu in return.
This is on top of Trump releasing all the 2,000 lb bombs that Biden froze (Israel actually bought those, so it is questionable whether it was even legal for Biden to hold those) and authorizing a new military aid package. Based on what he is saying, it seems he wants Netanyahu to do whatever it takes to secure a normalization deal with Saudi Arabia.
Best case solution IMO - moving all people from Gazza to the west bank, establish a Palestinian country on all A, B and most of C areas, compensate the Palestinian with more territory in the Negev, and from Jordan, making a one big country with territorial continuity.
Will this happen? No.
But this is the best case for everyone
Trump says Palestinians should leave Gaza permanently and US will ‘take over’ strip
lol I'm dead. I knew I'd be right about Donald, but this is another level!
Disgusting to celebrate such atrocities but I've grown to expect it.
Good luck with Trump as your absentee landlord.
I would have liked to see a different president in the US, a different prime minister in Israel and different neighbors.
And I also hope that unpredictable Trump will announce soon that he decided what are the border of Israel and settle this debate once and for all.
Im not celebrating Trump but also don't think that it is an atrocity to move the Palestinians out of Gaza, as long as they are provided with a long term solution.
And I bet you wish some other solution apart from the ethnic cleansing Trump wants was available, but alas it just has to be, very regrettable, I'm sure the displaced millions will be happy in their new land etc etc.
Abhorrent.
So, what's Trump going to do if the Gazans refuse to leave? Bomb them out? His deployed troops are going to march them out at gunpoint?
And I bet you wish some other solution apart from the ethnic cleansing Trump wants was available, but alas it just has to be, very regrettable, I'm sure the displaced millions will be happy in their new land etc etc.
Abhorrent.
Can you ever post something with merit, that has any content or real-world relevancy?
For a starter, can you offer a solution to this situation?
And the idea of a transfer, in this case, is far from abhorrent, for many reasons:
1. Many of the Palestinians in Gaza are not "native" to that place, and even according to them, they were displaced there. So, in essence, it's not like they are giving up "birth rights" or whatever is the new woke phrase.
2. Gaza has no real valid possibility to develop. It is surrounded by Egypt and Israel, both countries that are not very welcoming to them. If we want to establish a Palestinian country (and I know I do, not sure about you and all other perpetual victims), then it is better to do it in the west bank.
3. Gaza will be a Hamas strong hold for the formidable future. We don’t accept that reality and that will ensure the continuation of the war. More dead kids.
4. The city of Gaza is gone. The amount of resources needed to redevelop it, are enormous and should only be spend if we all can assure that it will not all be blown up within the next few years, i.e. again, no Hamas.
5. We can not reward Hamas now. If we establish a Palestinian state at this time, it will be a proof that the "resistance" is the way to go. On the other hand, we must establish a Palestinian state. The only way to settle this conundrum, is to charge a price from the Palestinians for the state – the lose of Gaza.
I would love a real replay for once, and not just your moral outburst and X posts sharing
Can you ever post something with merit, that has any content or real-world relevancy?
For a starter, can you offer a solution to this situation?
And the idea of a transfer, in this case, is far from abhorrent, for many reasons:
1. Many of the Palestinians in Gaza are not "native" to that place, and even according to them, So, in essence, it's not like they are giving up "birth rights" or whatever is the new woke phrase.
2. Gaza has no real valid possibility to develop. It is surrounded by Egypt an
Couldn't point #1 be used as justification to destroy the state of Israel? Many of the Israelis in Israel are not "native" to that place, So, in essence, it's not like they are giving up "birth rights" or whatever is the new woke phrase?
As to the rest of your points, are you justifying the displacement of millions of people? No future, Hamas stronghold, too expensive to bother rebuilding reasons & excuses etc etc?
I realise what Israel is up against and fully appreciate how you feel as an Israeli, but maybe you should think this one through a bit?
Also, isn't forced displacement an actual war crime? And an actual crime against humanity? Trump is going to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity?
Will Israel go along with this?
Couldn't point #1 be used as justification to destroy the state of Israel? Many of the Israelis in Israel are not "native" to that place, So, in essence, it's not like they are giving up "birth rights" or whatever is the new woke phrase?
As to the rest of your points, are you justifying the displacement of millions of people? No future, Hamas stronghold, too expensive to bother rebuilding reasons & excuses etc etc?
I realise what Israel is up against and fully appreciate how you feel as an Israeli
Number 1 is not my reasoning but using Jal reasoning against him. I could care less about birth rights and native agenda. I believe is realpolitik, fair solutions that are sustainable.
For those reasons, I also do not care too much for the definitions of war crimes and crimes against humanity. We need to have them in place, to set certain standards, and for the Veil of Ignorance notion, but it should not prevent us from doing what is right.
As for re the displacement of millions of people – it will not happen. It is right and needed, but not realistic. Do you have another solution?
