Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
32075 Replies
I personally dont think it will. I dont think Palestinians have a culture capable of forming a functional state. But they aren't alone. Half the world is in some form of a failed state. Westerners take it for granted that state building is easy, but it is something half the world never really figured out.
It is amusing, because you live in a nation with a thriving giant diaspora population because a lot of people were "forced" to leave for political and socio-economic reasons.
In many ways
During the famine we were forced to leave. Economically we chose to leave. Huge difference between that and what Trump's proposing and not remotely comparable.
5) Was the Good Friday Agreement a "reward" to the IRA? Seems to be working a lot better than before.
The goal of Irish resistance movement wasn't to destroy Britain. If it was then the Good Friday Agreement wouldn't have worked. The goal of the Palestinian resistance movement is to destroy Israel. Even today, the people are marching in the streets saying the next go around they will take Jerusalem.
A main reason there is no workable political solutions is because there is no coherent set of reasonable expectations to meet.
I mean, everyone knows Israel and its allies are humane, decent actors. The suggestion that they're going to be massacring Muslims like chickens at a KFC seems offensive and antisemitic to me.
I knew as soon as I saw "Deerborn" trending on twitter that we would be inundated by some of the worst takes imaginable
During the famine we were forced to leave. Economically we chose to leave. Huge difference between that and what Trump's proposing and not remotely comparable.
If we just stopped giving Gaza aid there would be a famine and they would be forced to leave for that reason.
Gaza is much less economically viable than Ireland was in 1845, with zero chance to ever be economically viable for political reasons.
Also, lets keep in mind we are talking about an area the size of a moderately large city. If Philadelphia was destroyed with little hope of being made functional in the near future for political reasons, and people left it to move to NYC no one would call it ethnic cleansing.
I knew as soon as I saw "Deerborn" trending on twitter that we would be inundated by some of the worst takes imaginable
What are the bad takes?
One by one, these groups are making public statements, horrified by meeting with Bibi, suggesting Gazans leave, etc.
And it's happening because the grifter grifted.
I don't see what the bad take is. Trump and Bibi are friends. Bibi is the first leader he chose to meet, which shows where Trump's head is at. And we already knew where his head was at when he chose an ambassador to Israel that didn't think Palestinians were a people. KFC gonna just keep pumping out that chicken.
And like I've said, I dislike Trump AND Bibi. Want them both out. But Trump dunking on Gaza was the most obvious call ever,
If we just stopped giving Gaza aid there would be a famine and they would be forced to leave for that reason.
Gaza is much less economically viable than Ireland was in 1845, with zero chance to ever be economically viable for political reasons.
Also, lets keep in mind we are talking about an area the size of a moderately large city. If Philadelphia was destroyed with little hope of being made functional in the near future for political reasons, and people left it to move to NYC no one would c
Again there's a difference between Philly people leaving and being force displaced.
Anyways, I am not arguing any of this will happen. The world, and the Palestinians themselves, seem perfectly content with the status quo, where they are controlled by extremely corrupt violent gangs and subsist almost completely off of aid with no real chance for economic growth, and wage generational Jihad.
If we just stopped giving Gaza aid there would be a famine and they would be forced to leave for that reason.
and if you lifted the blockade then they wouldnt need any aid from the US
with zero chance to ever be economically viable for political reasons.
political reasons meaning a neighbor that holds it under siege and periodically causes mass destruction and murder. incredible euphemism.
If Philadelphia was destroyed with little hope of being made functional in the near future for political reasons, and people left it to move to NYC no one would call it ethnic cleansing.
bc Philadelphia would be rebuilt and the people who left would be able to return. so its not at all the same.
So if we just stopped giving the people of Gaza food, and set up a new city for them in the desert with food and said, "Hey there is food here if you walk over, but you have to leave all the guns and green headbands behind" and they walked over to the new city, then it would be ok?
What are the bad takes?
One by one, these groups are making public statements, horrified by meeting with Bibi, suggesting Gazans leave, etc.
And it's happening because the grifter grifted.
I don't see what the bad take is. Trump and Bibi are friends. Bibi is the first leader he chose to meet, which shows where Trump's head is at. And we already knew where his head was at when he chose an ambassador to Israel that didn't think Palestinians were a people. KFC gonna just keep pumping out that chicke
Trump openly and boorishly stating what Biden and Blinken were quietly encouraging in private and very publicly promoting via mass destruction and murder is not some gotcha.
nobody is going to regret not supporting the Dems after they killed 100s of thousands no matter how dumb Trump acts.
Trump actually doesn't like Netanyahu. He took it very personally when Netanyahu congratulated Biden for winning the election in 2020, as he felt it was a betrayal given all he did for Israel from 2016-2020. But Trump is transactional, so he is willing to work with Netanyahu to achieve objectives.
Jalfrezi's stated reasons are nonsense, but Trump does want the Netanyahu govt to normalize relations with specific states such as Saudi and Indonesia, possibly making major concessions to get it to happen.
It's not millions? Are we sure it's not millions?
It's actually possible there are only 6 guys left in Gaza, and maybe moving the 6 somewhere else makes sense now?
this is the plan but Hamas has been heavily rearmed so I guess we will find out.
as to the death toll, well the other day Trump spoke of removing 1.5 million from Gaza so I guess do the math.
this is the plan but Hamas has been heavily rearmed so I guess we will find out.
as to the death toll, well the other day Trump spoke of removing 1.5 million from Gaza so I guess do the math.
So 700k? Is that what we're going with officially now? Just want to make sure I have it right for the history books.
check your math inputs. many have left Gaza.
Trump openly and boorishly stating what Biden and Blinken were quietly encouraging in private and very publicly promoting via mass destruction and murder is not some gotcha.
nobody is going to regret not supporting the Dems after they killed 100s of thousands no matter how dumb Trump acts.
You realize Biden isn’t president, right?
You don’t get to keep ****ing that chicken, RedBernBro
Best case solution IMO - moving all people from Gazza to the west bank, establish a Palestinian country on all A, B and most of C areas, compensate the Palestinian with more territory in the Negev, and from Jordan, making a one big country with territorial continuity.
Will this happen? No.
But this is the best case for everyone
This is a terrible idea. You never want to give the terrorists the high ground. How would this make things any better? No way these people should have a country bordering Israel on either side.
There's one - the idea that Trump has any actual friends. He's sucking up to that evil mfer because a) he wants Gaza for glitzy seafront properties and b) he hates Muslims.
It seems glitzy seafront properties is better than what is happening now. If only these people used their money for such projects instead of terrorism this could have been a nice tourist destination. Instead they are holding back the Middle East from normalizing business relationships. I'm shocked more countries aren't in favor of the Trump plan. Hate is not a profitable industry.
and if you lifted the blockade then they wouldnt need any aid from the US
political reasons meaning a neighbor that holds it under siege and periodically causes mass destruction and murder. incredible euphemism.
bc Philadelphia would be rebuilt and the people who left would be able to return. so its not at all the same.
Most people in Philadelphia think rationally. Most people in Philly haven't been taught since they were born to hate. Most people in Philly value life.
