Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
but as far as the Jolani gangs, those are your boys. they are aligned with the West. they are allies of Israel and the USA. and the tankies that were so-called "Assadists" or "Assad apologists" turned out to be 100% correct that the "moderate Syrian rebels" were actually headchopping psychopaths.so far they have massacred Alawite, Christian, Shia, Sunni (esp the Sufis), and
If the IRGC wasn't so insistent on attacking and destroying Israel, they would still be dominating Lebanon, Syria and Iraq (as Obama intended when he signed the JPCOA and allied with Russia and Iran to push out ISIS/Al Qaeda) and no one would care.
The IRGC declaring Jihad against Israel has never been a rationale decision. Unfortunately, the leaders of the IRGC are motivated largely by non rational religious ideology, so here we are.
just piles of dead and dying children
https://x.com/AbubakerAbedW/status/19477...
for generations this will be what everyone will think about when they hear the term antisemitism
just piles of dead and dying children
for generations this will be what everyone will think about when they hear the term antisemitism
the “it’s not antisemitism it’s antizionism” mask has come off
Imagine saying it's not anti-Germanism, it's anti-Naziism circa 1943
The fact is that antisemitism is used as justification for this genocide. And the fact is that Jews are not discriminated against in any way. And the fact is that 99% of Jewish institutions support this.
Keir Starmer is under pressure from cabinet ministers for the UK to immediately recognise Palestine as a state, as global outcry grows over Israel’s killing of starving civilians in Gaza.
The prime minister is understood to have been urged by a number of senior ministers in different cabinet meetings over recent months that the UK should take a leading role in issuing recognition.
The UK plans to formally acknowledge Palestine as part of a peace process, but only in conjunction with other western countries and “at the point of maximum impact” – without saying what that would be.
However, there has been a growing sense of desperation and horror inside the Labour cabinet in recent weeks over Israel’s killing of starving Palestinian civilians in Gaza and its attacks on humanitarian agencies.
Imagine saying it's not anti-Germanism, it's anti-Naziism circa 1943
The fact is that antisemitism is used as justification for this genocide. And the fact is that Jews are not discriminated against in any way. And the fact is that 99% of Jewish institutions support this.
Why are you anti-Nazi anyway? Sounds like you think they should have finished the job.
I am against genocide no matter the target. the only reason you dont like the Nazis is bc they targeted white Europeans. if they had just gone after Africans or Asians or Native Americans then they would have been fine in your eyes. and given your views on NATO and the Soviet Union, I am pretty skeptical you are anti-Nazi anyway.
Personally I’m not against Zionists…or recognizing Israel. The thing is I have spoken to IDF soldiers who have said it is practically impossible that October 7 could have occurred in the most monitored area in the world. One Israeli soldier specifically told me he believed somebody turned off the cameras on October 7 effectively allowing the attack to occur. I mean, think about it we had growing diplomacy between Israel and Muslim countries. Maybe that’s something that the extremist Zionists did not want to happen. It got in their way of the settlements.
And that the oct 7 attack went on for hours. They could’ve sent in helicopters in a matter of moments basically, but the attack went on and on and on.When the IDF finally responded to the Oct 7 attack They may have inadvertently killed Israeli civilians. Some say the “Hannibal directive” even had allowed them to do it on purpose to avoid them getting captured.
Interesting to see how American View toward Israel have changed significantly after the invasion of Gaza. I blame it all on Netanyahu and his supporters.
We now have a majority of Americans who have a negative view of Israel. It just a matter of one year it went from positive to negative.
We also have a growing number of right wingers who are opposed to the policies of Netanyahu. People like Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, who represented millions and millions of people who support them. Where is the left-wing on this. They’re pretty much unheard of.
Meaning left-wing politicians in America, either support Israel, like Chuck Schumer, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz…. Or they say nothing about it. Even the squad has voted in favor of bills to fund the iron dome.
Only a few brave politicians have actually voted to oppose sending money to Israel, like Thomas Massey and Marjorie Green. And they are Republicans.
yes we obviously have quite a few left wingers protesting in favor of Palestinians. But when it comes to power, which lefties are actually doing this?? Pretty much none of them. All they do is whine and moan about Trump. Again Chuck Schumer, Debbie Schultz , Nancy Pelosi are supporters of Israel.
Overwhelmingly the senators and Congress left and right support Israel or don’t do enough to oppose what they’re doing in Palestine. Again, really the only voices in government that have taken big measures to oppose funding Israel are conservatives Marjorie green and Thomas Massey.
It just seems like when it comes to those with power/influence more conservative leaning white Christians and black Christians and so many libertarian Jews are the biggest opponents of Netanyahu …. Think of Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson and Dave Smith. None of them are opposed to Jews in general. And it’s really pathetic to See some pro Israel people constantly lie about this issue by accusing critics of Netanyahu as being against Jews. Not every pro Israeli says this no doubt though this is clearly a tactic among some of the pro Israel crowd, and I believe that has lost Israel the support of most Americans…..it’s no different than the BLM tactics of accusing people of racism with no evidence.
It’s really interesting that a portion of pro Israel people say “well Israel gets singled out in the media” No they don’t re call how the Assad government in Syria was treated. And recall how Russia is being treated in the western media…. Anyone here remember CNN interviewing pro-Assad government figures during the Syrian Civil War???. How often does CNN or Fox News bring on a Russian politician to provide their view? Otoh the mass media in America whether it’s left-leaning CNN or right leaning Fox News will bring on pro Netanyahu government officials from Israel to provide their opinion.
So check box there.
Another line that some of the pro Israel people take is this propaganda line that “Israel does everything It can to avoid civilian deaths”. Yet How is it that they are capable of launching assassinations against their opponents in foreign countries. Whether it’s Iranian or Palestinian opponents. These are pinpointed assassinations carried out with extreme diligence. Not to mention the pager operation…. Yet they can’t do this in Gaza to Hamas??? It’s a conundrum. Something is not making sense.
Millions of Jews have protested against Netanyahu before and after October 7. In America and Israel. Netanyahu has been accused of accepting bribes and corruption. One former Prime Minister Ehaud Olmert of Israel said Netanyahu is a war criminal ….point here is accusing people of antisemitism for criticizing Netanyahu is a horrible tactic. I believe it is the biggest reason why Israel has lost support in America.
Lots of folks believe Netanyahu and the Israeli far right want to depopulate Gaza in order to allow for more settlements. So that’s a serious concern.
yes we obviously have quite a few left wingers protesting in favor of Palestinians. But when it comes to power, which lefties are actually doing this?? Pretty much none of them. All they do is whine and moan about Trump. Again Chuck Schumer, Debbie Schultz , Nancy Pelosi are supporters of Israel.Overwhelmingly the senators and Congress left and right support Israel or don’t do
lol no they whine about democrats constantly and never protests against republicans.
also Tucker, David Smith, and Candace Owens are all proud holocaust revisionists so please spare me about them not being anti-Jewish.
Tucker, Candace, and Smith try to shift the blame onto the Jews and off of the genocidal White Western Empire. this is important work for the Empire. Israel is just doing the bidding of the colonial Empire that has spanned as far back as the Roman Empire. that doesnt absolve Israel of blame. mafia hit men are still guilty and deserve punishment even if they are acting on behalf of their more murderous bosses.
but there will come a time when Israel becomes untenable. and these voices like Tucker will lead the charge to blame them.
I am against genocide no matter the target. the only reason you dont like the Nazis is bc they targeted white Europeans. if they had just gone after Africans or Asians or Native Americans then they would have been fine in your eyes. and given your views on NATO and the Soviet Union, I am pretty skeptical you are anti-Nazi anyway.
Yet you support October 7th, think it’s fine for Hamas to call for 1000 more October 7ths, think that taking people as hostages is ok… So again I don’t know why you care about the Nazis. They thought Jews were trying to steal their land too and didn’t deserve any of what they rightfully earned. They even met with Arab leaders who encouraged them to go even harder on the Jews than they already were, and rejected Jewish refugees back to certain death.
They thought Jews were trying to steal their land too and didn’t deserve any of what they rightfully earned.
absolutely amazing statement from a pro-Israel person. pretty sure some settlers just stole another village in the time it took you to type it up.
lol no they whine about democrats constantly and never protests against republicans.
also Tucker, David Smith, and Candace Owens are all proud holocaust revisionists so please spare me about them not being anti-Jewish.
.. there is no holocaust revisionism …provide a quote of any of the three saying the holocaust did not occur..you can’t bc it doesn’t exist. Best you might do is the blm tactic of accusing them of racism and inventing what they say. Like spinning their words. Not how the real world works. You can accuse them of antisemitism all you want, but it isn’t true.
This whole “you’re an antisemite” is a terrible tactic…straight up lie and a way to prevent dialogue. Idc about it nor to the majority of Americans tens of millions who support Dave Smith, Carlson or Owens. I’m so glad they do and your opinion is not supported by most.
Tucker just had a viral interview with Ted Cruz where he criticized the hell out of Cruz. Candace is at odds with Trump over Israel and Epstein. Smith , Carlson and Owens are all very critical of Neoconservatism, and they often lump in Republicans with Democrats as being the “uni party”
No offense you’re blatantly wrong ….either misinformed or willingly making things up.
Dave Smith is Jewish and compares some of the far right in Israel to Nazis.
The most powerful criticism of what Netanyahu is doing is coming from the Christian conservatives in America and Libertarian Jews ….again you won’t get it from CNN who interviews Israeli right figures all the time…..there are lefty podcasters critical of Israel but they don’t have as many followers as Carlson or Owens.
Tucker, Candace, and Smith try to shift the blame onto the Jews and off of the genocidal White Western Empire. this is important work for the Empire. Israel is just doing the bidding of the colonial Empire that has spanned as far back as the Roman Empire. that doesnt absolve Israel of blame. mafia hit men are still guilty and deserve punishment even if they are acting on be
Every person, Jewish, black, white , African , European etc has ancestors who committed crimes. Or who were a part of building empires. Black Africans built empires too and the good and bad that came with it…. Like the Mali empire or the Ethiopian kingdom. Slavery was practiced by Africans and Europeans throughout history. Personally I respect a number of the empires and Kingdoms from both Europe and Africa.
You might not be watching Owens or Carlson, who are incredibly critical of evangelical Christians who support Israel no matter what.
Currently Netanyahu is facing criticism from multiple types of people…lefties, righties …people from different religions.
The best hope Palestinians have from the influencers in the west is from Christians like Owens and Carlson and Libertarian Jews like Dave Smith. Please watch their videos you will see…
Yet you support October 7th, think it’s fine for Hamas to call for 1000 more October 7ths, think that taking people as hostages is ok… So again I don’t know why you care about the Nazis. They thought Jews were trying to steal their land too and didn’t deserve any of what they rightfully earned. They even met with Arab leaders who encouraged them to go ev
There were a small # of Arabs and Muslims who supported the third Reich. Otoh Over 1 million Muslims fought for the allied forces …also some played a role in saving Jews from the Holocaust.
Yay I remember when that con artist Netanyahu said “Hitler got the idea of the holocaust from a Mufti in Jerusalem”.
That was upsetting to many many Jews throughout the world and basically something that downplayed the Nazis.
See Netanyahu if he actually cared about Muslims would be putting Israeli Muslims front and center in his interview …. he would have Israeli officials who are Muslim get in front of the camera all the time. He’s not doing that. That and much more has led many to believe he’s some kind of a supremacist.
most people have no issues with Judaism or even Israel/Zionism. The number one problem is Netanyahu and his supporter its their war.
.. there is no holocaust revisionism …provide a quote of any of the three saying the holocaust did not occur..you can’t bc it doesn’t exist.
holocaust revisionism and denial are two different things.
You’re not proving anything here.
It’s bc you cannot find any statements of Carlson or Owen to collaborate what you’re saying.
Beyond that seems like you’re the type who would go for a gotcha moment when it comes to Carlson and Owens. People don’t buy it and that is why they have millions of followers from diverse backgrounds.
So much for being the “beacon of democracy in the Middle East”
How familiar are you with the current iteration of Candace Owens since she came back from maternity leave? I follow her on Twitter and this current iteration there really is no explanation other than pure antisemetic hate and dehumanization. It is just non stop extreme vitriolic dehumanization posting. And it is pretty much 100% criticizing Jews, and peddling antisemetic conspiracy theories.
That being said, I dont think Candace Owens actually has any real beliefs at all. Or any moral compass.
She is constantly reinventing herself, probably based on input from her audience and petty personal feuds. She is probably getting good numbers from antisemitism, and it is a method to "get back" at her former employers who are Jewish, so she is just running with it full steam ahead.
I do appreciate the irony that a couple weeks ago Islamists in Syria intentionally blew up a congregation killing something like 25 people and injuring much more; which is consistent with what has been going on in the MENA for decades. And Candace has nothing to say about any of this.
But then Israel shrapnel damages the corner of a church, Israel says it was an accident and immediately apologizes, but this is the incident that must be condemned with the strongest moral outrage.
It really is just bad faith antisemetic hate for clicks all the way down.
She doesn't give the slightest **** about Christian Arabs, or anyone else.
yellow is carlson, non-yellow is davis
he pretty much endorsed davis’s account of the reasons for the holocaust
did you know that the nazis would line up entire communities and massacre them into mass graves of thousands of people?
this is not “oh we have too many pows, have to do something with them” this was deliberate extermination.
and also david puts forward the nazi line about jews being primarily responsible for bolshevism.
again, no pushback from carlson and explicit endorsement.
how do I get to Dave Smith being a revisionist? he praised and defended davis’s views on WW2, multiple times, even debating a ww2 historian on pierce morgan’s show.
so yeah, I don’t throw around proud holocaust revisionism lightly.
and yeah, I agree that netanyahu’s blaming of muslims for the holocaust is holocaust revisionism, because he makes it seem like hitler didn’t already want a final solution for the jews, much like hamas wants.
see people like victor want us to see everyone in the oppressor/oppressed paradigm. so hitler was bad because he was an oppressor, against based communism. it wasn’t because of his particular beliefs on jews or power or whatever, because that would require victor to see something nazi-like in Hamas. nope, because Israel is the oppressor that means they are evil automatically. let’s just forget that if they didn’t have the iron dome, Hamas would be firing off rockets actually at random into civilian population centers. that doesn’t matter, that’s an oppressed person fighting back.
so it goes.
