Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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So if I post a clip of an Israeli leader calling for death of all Palestinians then your comment is invalid ?
No, but it would certainly more relevant than posting Tik Tok's of 18 year old reservists as evidence of Israeli policy.
I just found the simultaneous doublethink in real time amusing, where he was simultaneously hand waiving away the words of actual Hamas leaders doing interviews on the record while castigating Israel because of Tik Tok's by nobodies (where if you actually saw the Tik Tok I doubt it is even saying what he is arguing it does anyways).
No, but it would certainly more relevant than posting Tik Tok's of 18 year old reservists as evidence of Israeli policy.
I just found the simultaneous doublethink in real time amusing, where he was simultaneously hand waiving away the words of actual Hamas leaders doing interviews on the record while castigating Israel because of Tik Tok's by nobodies (where if you actually saw the Tik Tok I doubt it is even saying what he is arguing it does anyways).
do you think there is a lack of statements from Israeli leaders advocating for genocide?
I post both.
the leaders and media push for it and advocate for it. the soldiers do it. the society supports it. all 3 are widely reported in Israeli media.
theres a difference between comments and actions. we dont have very many videos of Hamas committing atrocities and certainly nothing of the scale that Israel is doing. thats the difference.
The difference is mainly that Israel has far more military power than Hamas. Hamas of course knew that, and they committed an extreme provocation, amounting to an act of war, in order to bring about precisely this result. What you're seeing in Gaza... this is what Hamas wanted and it's their own work. Terrorists always seek to provoke a reaction by the target state which they imagine will provide an ongoing pretext for their preferred hobby of self-righteous murder. And that's all they do. As to whether Hamas are any worse than the racist Israeli warhawks who, despite the variegation of opinion in Israel, always remain in charge... no, probably not, or not much.
And neither side can ever achieve its declared goal. Not ever. Hamas, or their successors, will never get the land 'from the river to the sea', and the Israelis will never get 'peace with security while we maintain our unlawful occupation and settlement policy and insist that the Arabs must agree to be ruled by us.' It'd be funny if it wasn't so catastrophically omni-tragic.
do you think there is a lack of statements from Israeli leaders advocating for genocide?
I post both.
the leaders and media push for it and advocate for it. the soldiers do it. the society supports it. all 3 are widely reported in Israeli media.
I think you can easily find statements by Israeli members of government, or top politicians in some of the parties making up the government coalition, which could be stretched to mean something that, if fulfilled, would be considered genocide.
But afaik no one of them asked explicitly for the assassination of all Palestinians everywhere in the world as a moral imperative, which is what a lot of Muslim leaders in the world and Hamas in it's entirety thinks should happen to Jews
I think you can easily find statements by Israeli members of government, or top politicians in some of the parties making up the government coalition, which could be stretched to mean something that, if fulfilled, would be considered genocide.
But afaik no one of them asked explicitly for the assassination of all Palestinians everywhere in the world as a moral imperative, which is what a lot of Muslim leaders in the world and Hamas in it's entirety thinks should happen to Jews
you are splitting hairs. you are undereestimating the sheer number of calls for murder and expulsion from Israeli politicians and media. and you are misrepresenting Hamas's view.
yes I inferred it from her quote. thats exactly what I said! to me, it indicates that she supports or would support a 2 state solution and thus her quote is not radical like you alleged.
I am not sure why you think that ending an occupation and an apartheid regime should be considered radical. maybe you could expound on that. nor am I sure how a 2 state solution could ever occur while there is an occupation and apartheid regime.
It's not radical to shall we say radical people like yourself. Meanwhile on planet Earth...
And again regardless of what you subjectively infer, no mention was made re a two state solution and you need to stop going off on other tangents.
you are splitting hairs. you are undereestimating the sheer number of calls for murder and expulsion from Israeli politicians and media. and you are misrepresenting Hamas's view.
Asking for everyone connected with Hamas to be assassinated isn't asking for genocide, even if 5,10, 20, 30 % of gazean could qualify .
While asking for all Jews to be assassinated because they are Jews, that's literal genocide
It's not radical to shall we say radical people like yourself. Meanwhile on planet Earth...
And again regardless of what you subjectively infer, no mention was made re a two state solution and you need to stop going off on other tangents.
those are just some preconditions for 2SL. maybe she does not support it. I dunno.
I just find it funny that you yourself claim to support a 2SL but somehow find ending the occupation and ending apartheid to be crazy. really not sure what type of 2SL you envision but it doesnt seem fair or sustainable.
those are just some preconditions for 2SL. maybe she does not support it. I dunno.
I just find it funny that you yourself claim to support a 2SL but somehow find ending the occupation and ending apartheid to be crazy. really not sure what type of 2SL you envision but it doesnt seem fair or sustainable.
Define "occupation". If you mean the state of Israel being an occupation by nature of its existence, you're laughed at. If you mean IDF currently in Gaza, it's a war. If you mean settlements, I disagree with settler expansion.
Yes, ideally I support a two state solution in a wouldn't it be nice sorta way. I would very much like to see the Palestinians have self determination and thrive in their own state. As in the people. Their rulers otoh don't want that and neither does Nethanyahu who I hoped is kicked out on his arse come next election. Hamas want Israel obliterated and that's not gonna happen any time soon. So while I wish for a two state solution I also recognise the context and nuances that make such a solution untenable at present. You don't see any context as you live in a goodies vs baddies universe where anyone who disagrees with you is a baddie, hence your insults and belief we love babies getting killed, hence your recently getting drop-kicked into 2+2 correctional penitentiary before making parole.
I don't regard Israel as "an apartheid regime" or "occupiers" or "genocidal" or any of the other bs hyperbolic terms people like you and the Francescas of the world bandy about and I don't regard Hamas apologists as valid sources. Nor did I infer support for a two state solution from her waffle. I did infer anti Semitism though such as evil Jewish lobbying puppetmasters and Jews exploiting the Holocaust . It's one of several reasons I don't regard her as a valid source.
I'm absolutely positive though that you inferred none of these things vic. 😀
Define "occupation". If you mean the state of Israel being an occupation by nature of its existence, you're laughed at. If you mean IDF currently in Gaza, it's a war. If you mean settlements, I disagree with settler expansion.
Yes, ideally I support a two state solution in a wouldn't it be nice sorta way. I would very much like to see the Palestinians have self determination and thrive in their own state. As in the people. Their rulers otoh don't want that and neither does Nethanyahu who I hoped
They consider economic blockades occupation.
Nevermind that they start with "capitalism is terrible", but if you don't let other foreign inimical territories trade with you freely, and benefit from your capitalism when they are suffering the disaster of socialism or communism, that's occupation.
So it's like claiming Cuba is occupied by the USA
This stuff is why building the walls and closing borders in 2005ish was such a setback. Conflict went back before that, but it wasn't unusual for Israeli Jews and Palestinians to know each other personally.
This is why the Israelis tried to expand work permits and why Hamas made sure to bomb Israel until the Israelis just stopped letting Gazans work in Israel.
They consider economic blockades occupation.
Nevermind that they start with "capitalism is terrible", but if you don't let other foreign inimical territories trade with you freely, and benefit from your capitalism when they are suffering the disaster of socialism or communism, that's occupation.
So it's like claiming Cuba is occupied by the USA
How many Cubans has the USA killed in the last 60 years ? Or does that not matter
how many tens of thousands of rockets and rape expeditions have cuba sent to the united states
still carrying on with this rape stuff when its been thoroughly debunked. an order of magnitude more Gazans have been raped by IOF than Israelis.
more Hamas propaganda on Israeli TV. brought to you by a twitter account of a Jewish man living in Tel Aviv.
Do you need some attention?
