Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
Sure it does, it's a big part of empire. Israel prevents the rise of local (or external) powers that might challenge US hegemony over the oil lanes. Washington was thrilled with the 1967 victory, for one.
Why do you think Washington puts up with all Israel's ****?
The US has bases in all those counties so not buying the old propaganda.
Makes no difference to empire.
South Korea and Japan get 90% of their petroleum from the Persian Gulf. The US has its finger on the world's on-off switch. Other countries have to defer to the US because Washington controls their energy source. Why do you think the Persian Gulf is ringed by American bases? It establishes the power matrix.
Iran? Yemen?
I agree that Israel might be less important to empire than it once was, but it is still seen a bulwark of western influence in a hostile neighborhood.
PokerEthics is just displaying his extreme ignorance. He saw a few YouTube videos made by crackpots and came here all excited to share.
Iran? Yemen?
I agree that Israel might be less important to empire than it once was, but it is still seen a bulwark of western influence in a hostile neighborhood.
I think this was the case as late as 20 years ago…. More so 40 years ago.
But today much of the Middle East is considerably different. The gulf countries with exception to perhaps Yemen are all into western things….i mean Qatar hosting the 2022 World Cup. Saudi Arabia and the LIV golf tour, various E gaming platforms and events found in Saudi Arabia and the UAE. The Abraham accords. The one significant anti-western establishment left is Iran and it’s mainly it’s government. All of them are doing little or nothing with regards to the genocide in Gaza. The so called Arab countries are effectively doing what the United Kingdom and France are doing, which is verbally announcing the actions of Israel. Perhaps supporting an arrest warrant for the Prime Minister of Israel. But there is nothing military wise.
Most Palestinians don’t want anything to do with Iran in large part due to the historic Persia Arab rivalry. And Palestinians view Iran‘s government as talking a big game but really doing little to actually help them.Iraq under the Ba’ath had sway in Palestine but they are gone.
Of course populations all over the world including in Iran and Arab countries are upset with what is going on in Gaza. But it’s like with Ukraine sure a lot of people are upset with what’s going on in Ukraine, but you’re gonna have mixed responses to it with regards to the European populations… it kind of reminds me of some of the pro war in Gaza people who in sort of a low IQ fashion believe that the Arab countries should accept Palestinian refugees, of which they’ve already accepted millions…. But they should accept more. It’s like so someone in Sweden or Germany or Poland should just accept Ukrainian refugees? . Again there’s mixed responses to these things.
^^^I don't see how any of that contradicts my contention that the American empire wants hard positions in strategic areas, particularly the Persian Gulf. Yes, the region has changed, but you haven't linked any of that change to a waning US interest in the area.
It's like the Panama Canal. Carter's deal with Panama reserved an American right to militarily intervene in the case of blockage. They are not going to let go of strategic positions, no matter how the regional politics evolve.
^^^I don't see how any of that contradicts my contention that the American empire wants hard positions in strategic areas, particularly the Persian Gulf. Yes, the region has changed, but you haven't linked any of that change to a waning US interest in the area.It's like the Panama Canal. Carter's deal with Panama reserved an American right to militarily intervene in the case of
I wasn’t necessarily attempting to contradict points. But showing some of the intricacies of the situation in the Middle East and how it has evolved. I don’t think that there is a waning US influence in the Middle East.
Like some pro war in Gaza people would believe for example that Palestinians love Iran’s government when it is very much the opposite according to polling and interviews of Palestinian people.
And there are still pro war in Gaza low IQ people who believe that Muslims in the Middle East are living in caves and totally backwards. When all of the obvious evidence points to economic success, safety, security, and most citizens living in the middle class or upper class in the gulf countries.
The last Arab country to truly physically resist Israel would be Ba’athist Iraq…and that was part of why their government was invaded and overthrown during the Bush years.
I don’t agree with total isolationism…. I believe in the traditional Democrat ways of Franklin Roosevelt who believed in world powers working together. A portion of Republicans are isolationist …. I don’t agree with that. I do want the USA to utilize its own natural resources more. And the influence of the military industrial complex can be looked at and changed for the better.
There is a significant degree of differences of ideologies when it comes to people who oppose Israel’s genocide in Gaza. Of course some of the pro war in Gaza people attempt to paint them as all being the same or something stupid like that. My position on Netanyahu is that he is immoral ….im not against Israel existing but clearly as folks from both the left and right have pointed out he is not good for not Only the USA but his ideology is just not good for the world. Again there are genocide scholars, including Jewish scholars saying there is a genocide in Gaza. There are reporters from Israel who are saying that Israel’s war in Gaza is unparalleled in terms of civilian deaths compared to other more modern wars.
The US various governments over the years have had both a positive and negative effect around the world. I go back to and appreciate the post ww2 era which saw the post World War II economic boom all around the world. This was a time when there was not insane radical leftism cancel culture but a strong middle class in the USA…. My point is that some of the greatest Democrats have been for US involvement in the Middle East goes back to FDR working with the Saudi’s for example…. That doesn’t mean I agree with telling foreign governments how to run their countries. I think in the future Israel w/o Netanyahu in charge can be a better part of the international community.
The number of Jews leaving Israel doubled in 2023 to 82,000, according to a Knesset report.
The ex-pats lean heavily towards youth and high education. I guess they've had enough of genocide and far right politics.
Except Israel doesn’t have anything to do with US security…
In fact it makes us a target and the bad guys and less secure.
You’re just regurgitating propaganda that’s 20 years old.
hard disagree destroying Muslim theocracy's is in the best interest of any western citizen . Also alot of it is just money the us is going to spend anyway if were being honest. even if those us weapons are not used they are still made and paid for. Its funny some people pick and choose who its ok to supply russia also started a war against an Allie/Buffer state should we stop supplying ukraine too? Its fine to argue if its alright to do this but its definitely in your interest
hard disagree destroying Muslim theocracy's is in the best interest of any western citizen .
you might want to call up the neocons and let them know they are doing it wrong then.
and yes, AQ won and toppled the secular Assad gov.
you might want to call up the neocons and let them know they are doing it wrong then. and yes, AQ won and toppled the secular Assad gov.
Bro saw one email that maybe agreed with him slightly and decided to wildly misinterpret it and also put loads of epistemic weight on it that it doesn’t deserve. Are you ok?
you might want to call up the neocons and let them know they are doing it wrong then. and yes, AQ won and toppled the secular Assad gov.
you don't win every battle in a war sir your one random example means nothing to logical people. pretty sure syria is going well for the west! We kicked out a governing party called "Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party" big dub. Do you know whats worse then a theocracy? a communist theocracy. Their constitution stated their communist leader had to be a muslim. But then again you are the people on team iran I shouldn't be surprised. but its hard to argue the overthrow of syria is not good for your average non religious westerner but im sure you will try
It is looking like the new status quo for the near future at least is that Hamas is going to keep its weapons and keep control of half of Gaza; using terror, brutality, torture and executions to maintain order and control.
And Israel and aligned clans/militias are going to control the other half, doing their best to keep Hamas out.
yes that was my whole point and it refutes your whole bullshit about extremist Muslim theocracy being opposed to the interests of the West. in fact, if you actually open a history book, or podcast, or wikipedia, then you will find that the West has always aligned with Extremists to its interests.
PokerEthics is just displaying his extreme ignorance. He saw a few YouTube videos made by crackpots and came here all excited to share.
You can only attack the messenger but you have no defense morally for defending genocide and apartheid.
Morally bankrupt stuck on 30 year old propaganda.
hard disagree destroying Muslim theocracy's is in the best interest of any western citizen . Also alot of it is just money the us is going to spend anyway if were being honest. even if those us weapons are not used they are still made and paid for. Its funny some people pick and choose who its ok to supply russia also started a war against an Allie/Buffer state should we stop s
So you’re also stuck on 30 year old propaganda…
Ironically if you call out Israel you’re antisemitic but these people are allowed to be as racist and Islamophobic as they want.
This entire thread is 20 year old talking points. Any other platform has way more rational talking points.
If someone said what moving target and doyles fan have said itt they would be downvoted to oblivion.
Especially when doyles only ad hominem attacks letting us all know he’s lost the debate, or when moving target shows his hatred for Muslims.
Again even if the Israeli side and all these talking points were true…
There’s still the problem of international war crimes.
There’s no way Israel comes out of this as the good or right guys.
The US needs to start distancing themselves from this genocidal ethnic state that in no way acts as a democracy or an ally.
The US needs to start distancing themselves from this genocidal ethnic state that in no way acts as a democracy or an ally.
Speaking of talking points, that's a liberal one. It doesn't take into account that Israel is way too valuable to empire for the US to turn away. Of its many services, Israel hosts huge US munitions dumps for fighting a big war in the Persian Gulf. It's also been very useful in disciplining Iran, one of the few countries in the region not aligned with the US.
So you’re also stuck on 30 year old propaganda…
Ironically if you call out Israel you’re antisemitic but these people are allowed to be as racist and Islamophobic as they want.
being against religion is not Islamophobic or racist im against all religions equally. they just happen to be the only people dumb enough left on earth to form governments around their religion thats on them they will hopefully figure it out soon. I was not alive 30 years ago these are independent conclusions
This entire thread is 20 year old talking points. Any other platform has way more rational talking points. If someone said what moving target and doyles fan have said itt they would be downvoted to oblivion. Especially when doyles only ad hominem attacks letting us all know he’s lost the debate, or when moving target shows his hatred for Muslims.Again even if the Israeli
wow! not downvoted! altho alot of reddit surprising seems pro israel at least in world news. but I don't think you should form your worldviews on what a heavy left leaning social media platform up or downvotes. Downvoting and upvoting is the dumbest thing actually it just reinforces echo chambers
wow! not downvoted! altho alot of reddit surprising seems pro israel at least in world news. but I don't think you should form your worldviews on what a heavy left leaning social media platform up or downvotes. Downvoting and upvoting is the dumbest thing actually it just reinforces echo chambers
On top of this, there is definitely foreign actors in places like Pakistan, China and Russia manipulating the platforms, normally by pushing the most bigoted, disruptive and false viewpoints; in this case PokerEthics worldview.
wow! not downvoted! altho alot of reddit surprising seems pro israel at least in world news. but I don't think you should form your worldviews on what a heavy left leaning social media platform up or downvotes. Downvoting and upvoting is the dumbest thing actually it just reinforces echo chambers
I mean ya social media doesn’t really matter…
But when x and Reddit both agree then you have a problem. The left and right are uniting on this issue.
Again it’s not a good look for your side. Then again this is just another false paradigm. You don’t have to pick a side.
You can just be anti genocide, apartheid, ethnostates etc…
You or I don’t even need to provide a solution. We can just be anti US foreign policy and leave it at that.
