Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
Trump, being a narcissist, is a 'copier'. He has no ideas of his own and just copies people he perceives to have status. So he tends to bear the imprint of whoever last sat on him, which in this case is Putin. He appears not to have realised, yet, that the 'deal' for which he expects the world's plaudits will require Ukraine's agreement, otherwise it can't happen.
Trump, being a narcissist, is a 'copier'. He has no ideas of his own and just copies people he perceives to have status. So he tends to bear the imprint of whoever last sat on him, which in this case is Putin. He appears not to have realised, yet, that the 'deal' for which he expects the world's plaudits will require Ukraine's agreement, otherwise it can't happen.
he needs Russia's approval too and they are pretty vocal about keeping NATO "peacekeepers" out of Ukraine.
Zelensky's most recent approval rating of 57% is better than Trump's at 53%.
Zelensky's most recent approval rating of 57% is better than Trump's at 53%.
Trump was a massive dog to win the last 2 elections that he won.
Isn't Turkey strategically important and haven't they allowed US missile and military bases there? Morals aside, you mentioned realpolitik and in such terms, that at least has some form of logic to it.
Where's the logic here appeasing a bully boy leader of an unfree country? What's Russia offering? Even in realpolitik terms this doesn't make sense.
I actually agree that European NATO members can't take America for granted and always rely on them by rote. I agree they need to get their act together
Putin is going to be dead in 15 years. Who knows what the future of Russia will be after he is gone. Like I said, a lot of Russian elites are very upset how Russia has turned away from the west and gone full BRICS.
Obviously, in any deal Ukraine, the rest of Europe and the US should have security concerns addressed, and maybe the criticism Trump isn’t doing this at all is fair.
But there are clear and obvious potential benefits, in the short, medium, and long term to normalizing relations with Russia.
Someone seems to have changed their tune from 2022
Putin is going to be dead in 15 years. Who knows what the future of Russia will be after he is gone. Like I said, a lot of Russian elites are very upset how Russia has turned away from the west and gone full BRICS.
Obviously, in any deal Ukraine, the rest of Europe and the US should have security concerns addressed, and maybe the criticism Trump isn’t doing this at all is fair.
But there are clear and obvious potential benefits, in the short, medium, and long term to normalizing relations
His inner circle seems to consist of thugs like that Prigozhin dude, who had an unfortunate accident a while back, so Putin's eventual departure won't necessarily mean that Russia will go all sunshine and rainbows. And at what price is normalising relations with a country which has apparent imperial ambitions? Russia gets appeased now and who's next on their list in a few years?
Isn't Turkey strategically important and haven't they allowed US missile and military bases there? Morals aside, you mentioned realpolitik and in such terms, that at least has some form of logic to it.
Where's the logic here appeasing a bully boy leader of an unfree country? What's Russia offering? Even in realpolitik terms this doesn't make sense.
I actually agree that European NATO members can't take America for granted and always rely on them by rote. I agree they need to get their act together
Yes, obviously claiming Ukraine started the war is nonsense. But I can see the realpolitik rationals for doing so right now. And even if there wasn’t, saying callous stupid **** is just part of the Trump package. Don’t blame me. I Didn’t vote for him. But I am hopeful we can get past this and still have peace.
I guess where we differ, is you assume Russia's end goal is going to be capturing as much territory in Europe as they can regardless of how this works out. And any peace treaty now is just going to be bad faith, temporary and broken at their convenience. And I am more glass half full that they can be incentivized to give up on this ambition, especially when Putin is gone (hopefully this happens sooner than later)
--Basically you assume Russia is a much bigger, badder Hamas. And I see them in a more "glass-half full" light.
this is why I loved flaming bluegrass and pushed for Ukraine making peace a year ago even at unfavorable terms. I saw this coming a mile away now their negotiation position is ruined. Now I kinda wanna keep the war going out of spite
tankies saw this coming in 2022. or probably in 2014, I wouldnt know as I was a lib back then. hell, I probably was in 2022 to.
but this what happens when you get in bed with the Americans. andreally, theres nothing special about the ruling class of Ukraine. liberals will always sell out untold amounts of plebs to hold onto power and wealth.
I didn’t vote for Trump, and knowledge he is petty and vindictive.
But he was elected by the American people with the promise to end the war under reasonable terms.
So the only real pertinent question is whether he is on the path towards achieving this or not.
And at this point I am just as concerned of the American media going dull court blitz trying to keep the war going just to make sure he doesn’t get the W, as I am about his approach.
Nah !
1 day ….
I just don’t understand why people can’t just hold trump accountable for 1 thing …..just 1 freakn thing .
It’s impossible -> cult .
it doesnt show ****. what do you think Putin's approval ratings are? people are terrified of the Secret Police in Ukraine.
I wonder if those 600 billions foreign assets of Russia that got seized will be given back in the deal ….
Trump can say yes but can he forced others to agreed to reimburse them ?
it doesnt show ****. what do you think Putin's approval ratings are? people are terrified of the Secret Police in Ukraine.
I think your drinking the coolaid aint no way a war time president has a bad approval rating. Now if you were to get a poll including only military aged men and not include old people and women.......
kinda doubt there are all that many military eligible men responding to that poll fwiw...
I wonder if those 600 billions foreign assets of Russia that got seized will be given back in the deal ….
Trump can say yes but can he forced others to agreed to reimburse them ?
Talking to a Russian guy at work and he's thinking where to base himself. Says he'd like to go back to Russia because his income tax will be less than 6%.
Don't know how they're funding this stuff.
But he has to wait for the war to end as he doesn't want to get snatched off the street and thrown in the army.
Trump thinks Zelensky is the actual dictator now …
another banger from my favorite Ohio grown writer
America buys governments and if that doesn't work, coups them. Thus America decapitated an elected Ukrainian government in 2014, completely suspended elections under their CIA comedian President, and laundered billions of dollars through the notoriously corrupt country, of which $100 billion is just 'missing'. Now after turning Ukrainian men to ghosts, America is ghosting the country entirely, claiming billions worth of resources and sticking Europe with the bill.
So what's on the menu? Same thing that's always on the menu. Blood sausage. Put through the meat grinder by Biden, put on the chopping block by Trump, it's a bipartisan bloodbath.
He's an installed puppet who cancelled his country's elections, he's a corrupt nothing burger. Trump and Putin both know this (ihth).
Trump knows nothing. About anything. And Britain suspended the general election due in 1940, requiring Churchill to form a coalition government with the Labour opposition, and only crazypersons would claim that Churchill was a dictator. The US is highly unusual in having held elections in wartime (because its 18th-century constitution is so archaic and inflexible).
He's an installed puppet who cancelled his country's elections, he's a corrupt nothing burger. Trump and Putin both know this (ihth).
zelensky didnt do that. the ukrainian constitution cancelled the election because the country is obviously in a state of emergency and that's the law
