LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)
Very impressed with the minute sequence where LeBron clearly lost the ball headed to the rim, heat got the ball anyway and scored, then he elbows his defender in the chin, drawing a defensive foul and stern talking to from the official and hitting a 3.
It's these ref assisted 5 point swings in close games that truly bring out the best in great players.
Link to post of why Elon Musk is the true GOAT: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
The thread that will go on for years..........
vs.
It should be obvious why Lebron was given MVP. He raises value of the Olympics far more than Curry. It had little to do with their actual importance weighted performances
And Wemby is better than either, but his team lost so he's shut out, I guess.
It should be obvious why Lebron was given MVP. He raises value of the Olympics far more than Curry. It had little to do with their actual importance weighted performances
And Wemby is better than either, but his team lost so he's shut out, I guess.
The Olympics stands on it's own and doesn't need Lebron.. How does Lebron raise the value of the Olympics?.. The value would've been higher if he wasn't there because the women's team and other competitors would've been covered more like they should've been...
The only thing Lebron did was hurt our chemistry and cause us to nearly lose several times - anyone who disagrees with this is essentially saying that the US wasn't good enough to win gold without Lebron - think how ridiculous that is... It's obviously false, which means the opposite is true - the team would've been better without his brand of ball and blown teams away like the talent advantage dictates they should have.
Lebron is big business wherever he goes. He will likely be given an NBA franchise with enough implied operational control that the other equity principals will become 100% passive.
Olympics I assume have control over IP, which they will be able to market more profitably with Lebron than with Curry.
Curry is trying to build his brand, but he is way behind Lebron. This thread should attest to that.
Think how ridiculous it is to say that LeBron isn't a Top 10 player of all time and makes a team worse.
But here we are.
I could posit that a top 20 player would have easily achieved the same ring results with Lebron's ring rosters.
That alone does not exclude Lebron from top 10, but it puts things into better perspective.
I'm Steph's biggest fan, but LeBron was better over all the games. I'm sorry that doesn't fit with your narrative.
There was talk about how awful he'd been after 3 games.
I'm Steph's biggest fan, but LeBron was better over all the games. I'm sorry that doesn't fit with your narrative.
There was talk about how awful he'd been after 3 games.
The other games didn't matter. It's like awarding gold to a prelim heat.
It's not just my narrative. It seems to be a popular POV.
LeBron was really good in the last two games.
And Curry was better
Curry is trying to build his brand, but he is way behind Lebron. This thread should attest to that.
The only reason Curry's brand trails Lebron's is because his marketing team isn't anywhere near Lebron's - Lebron officially put the media under his thumb in 2017 when his team attacked Barkley on a personal level after Barkley questioned Lebron's competitiveness.. That was the exact moment that the media started shilling for Lebron out of sheer FEAR of not wanting to get attacked and exposed like Barkley.
The media has been Lebron's b*tch ever since.. At this point, the fear that Klutch instilled is subconscious and automatic - the media automatically gives Lebron as much as they can - he's trained them.. They will give Lebron a 5th MVP if AD carries the Lakers to a 4 seed.
Curry's team simply wasn't low-down and unscrupulous enough to attack the media on a personal level like the Barkley incident, nor did his team have the temerity to televise the "decision" to team up with opponents... The media cowers in the face of this kind of boldness and unconventionality.. Accordingly, a better marketing team for Curry would've achieved a better brand than Lebron because Curry introduced the world to a better way of playing basketball, while winning more games and better titles than Lebron (winning 2 rings with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player).
Don't forget KD tho.
There is no question Lebron knows how the "game" is played.
I like how 5 of the best players in the world can't play well together because LeBron is on the bench. But last week, when they were playing well, it was also because of LeBron.
Question fallguy. You give LeBron **** for his teams cratering when he's on the bench. Your thoughts of that the same thing happening when Curry (who plays the "right" way) is on the bench during the Warriors heyday?
I believe the Warriors were still about .500 in games without Curry because Curry's game develops great chemistry that continues when he isn't there, so the team doesn't completely collapse... Ditto Duncan and MJ.
Otoh, there's no chemistry on Lebron's teams because he makes all the plays, so the team collapses over short time periods without him.. But when they had time to develop chemistry, they've excelled without him in recent years because he's been out for longer stretches..
We all remember when they were out of the play-in a couple years ago but became the hottest team in the league when Lebron went out.. They were so hot without him, that he was actually relegated to a more off-ball role when he came back - they didn't want to screw up the chemistry by putting him on-ball again.
The presence of KD is why Curry has only 2 rings that are better than Lebron's...
And there's nothing wrong with KD teaming up with Curry to gain unprecedented advantage when Lebron enjoyed an unprecedented advantage with 6 straight preseason favorites (11-16') and the only team with 3 franchise players on 1 team.
What's the appropriate way to respond to a rival that manufactured 3 chips in 6 years and favored talent for 6 straight years?
The presence of KD is why Curry has only 2 rings that are better than Lebron's...
And there's nothing wrong with KD teaming up with Curry to gain unprecedented advantage when Lebron enjoyed an unprecedented advantage with 6 straight preseason favorites (11-16') and the only team with 3 franchise players on 1 team.
What's the appropriate way to respond to a rival that manufactured 3 chips in 6 years and favored talent for 6 straight years?
How quickly people forget that KD+Curry on GSW was thought of as basically cheating the system.
Kerr had an entire olympic training camp with this roster, 1 month, and you are telling me he was influenced by TV and media?
Tatum got a few minutes in the final game and was immediately yanked off the court. Can you explain why?
We need a response to this fallguy.
Jordan/Tatum ball is on a noose right now and the chair just got kicked.
If Tatum Ball resembled Jordan ball so much (as fallguy has been claiming), why was Jordan ball thrown in the garbage this final game and quickly benched?
If Tatum Ball resembled Jordan ball so much (as fallguy has been claiming), why was Jordan ball thrown in the garbage this final game and quickly benched?
If you've ever played on an organized basketball team that people care about (where **** matters), then you'll know that coaches are often confidence-killers, even for super-alpha guys, let alone guys like Tatum.
If you're getting 3 minutes here and 30 seconds there, it's tough to get going.. I would like to see how Lebron reacts to a coach that is crapping on him and treating him like a towel boy... He would probably just walk off the court and quit.. Surely the great Lebron James wouldn't stand for it.. Tatum doesn't have the media protection to pull that off without massive blowback, so he didn't walk off - but that's probably how he felt, and it translated to his on-court play.
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2010 Wade........ 28 PER... 9.2 BPM
2010 Kobe......... 21 PER... 4.4 BPM
2010 Bosh......... 6x all-star..... 1x All-NBA
2010 Paul.......... 1x all-star..... 0x All-NBA
How quickly people forget that KD+Curry on GSW was thought of as basically cheating the system.
No, the KD and Curry collusion is the one everyone remembers - KD's rings are crapped on and people say they don't count.
Otoh, Lebron had an unmatched advantage on the league before KD responded, and Lebron's advantage lasted 6 years, while KD's only lasted for 3.
Ultimately, they both obtained unmatched advantages that they enjoyed for years, so none of their rings should "count"..
As the numbers show above, Lebron teamed up with Kobe-Pau II but went 2/4 including goat choke and record loss.. That's the worst anyone could do.. Of course, it's bball 101 that the reason why favored talent underachieves is because of inferior chemistry and brand of ball... History shows that Bron-ball mostly loses regardless of who we put around him, and it cannot compete on the championship level (lottery record on the championship level).
If you've ever played on an organized basketball team that people care about (where **** matters), then you'll know that coaches are often confidence-killers, even for super-alpha guys, let alone guys like Tatum.
If you're getting 3 minutes here and 30 seconds there, it's tough to get going.. I would like to see how Lebron reacts to a coach that is crapping on him and treating him like a towel boy... He would probably just walk off the court and quit.. Surely the great Lebron James wouldn't stand
So Jordan / tatum ball crumbles when it isn't being baby sat by the coach and needs a wet blanket from Kerr?
Soft.
No, the KD and Curry collusion is the one everyone remembers - KD's rings are crapped on and people say they don't count.
Otoh, Lebron had an unmatched advantage on the league before KD responded, and Lebron's advantage lasted 6 years, while KD's only lasted for 3.
At the time GSW was winning chps with ease, many fans were complaining that it was not fair, that something needs to be done because GSW winning was a foregone conclusion.
Funny that I never heard that about any Lebron constructed super team.
Its not because GSW were too good, it was because Lebron was not good enough.
Give me a break, Kerr was a facilitator. They could have had Donald Duck "coach" that team.
Aww, that's cute. Guy finished in the top 2 in MVP twice in his career (never because of Jordan) and yet somehow he's magically number 2 all time. I'd be surprised if there was ever even a 5 year stretch of NBA history where Kobe was in the top 2 of player value metrics. There's absolutely no reasonable case for him being the #2 player of all time, unless you're 7 years old and have 14 posters of him on your wall.
Even at age 39.5, Lebron doesn't have to be a towel boy on team USA because he was a top 5 player on the court for the team. Consistently. The last time the US team made the mistake of not giving James big minutes was the last time they didn't win the gold. A few players could've gotten the MVP, but he was the team's leader without question.
Kobe by comparison was such a team cancer that he ran Shaq out of town, and then at the end of his career, pissed around chucking bricks and over his final.2 seasons (101 games) was possibly the worst player in the entire NBA.
But make another 7000 posts about how much you hate Lebron James and how much it clouds all of your thinking 24/7.
Is there any disputing Lebron has underperformed in playoff/chp situations?
Or do we simply write off his 4 rings in 20 years as variance or repeatedly weak supporting casts?
or hold our collective breath that he will win #5 next year?
