LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)
Very impressed with the minute sequence where LeBron clearly lost the ball headed to the rim, heat got the ball anyway and scored, then he elbows his defender in the chin, drawing a defensive foul and stern talking to from the official and hitting a 3.
It's these ref assisted 5 point swings in close games that truly bring out the best in great players.
Link to post of why Elon Musk is the true GOAT: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
The thread that will go on for years..........
vs.
It's 6 in 8 seasons, and yes of course it's a dynasty I don't think anyone is disputing that.
Why does Jordan get 6 in 8 and not 6 in 15 (or whatever) but Lebron gets 4 in 21 and not 4 in 9?
It just shows how ridiculous their LeBron hate and Jordan worship is.
Let's do the same thing back at them. Jordan is really 6 out of 32 if you include the 4 years he didn't bother to play and his 13 years of losing ownership.
The ridiculous thing is I'm a big Jordan fan but the Lebron haters are just so sad you have to sink to their level.
A dynasty .
Hard to build one, with a guy like lebron winning 4 title in 21 years with 3 different teams.
6 titles in 7 years seem a dynasty to me, while the guy even retired twice lol.
Imagine if he didnt and play in a weak ass east conference for 10 years in a league like today ...
6 in 8 and he never won after the second retirement.
It’s ok if u believe 6 rings in 8 years span , including a tiny retirement, shouldn’t be considered a dynasty .
We see how honest you are .
Regardless if the guy play at 36-37 of injured in his late 30s with a trash team .
Ps: both mj and lebron won their last title at 35 , what did LeBron afterwards , he didn’t made playoffs either like MJ while LeBron had a better team
Shrug .
Seriously?
How t f a GM can build a dynasty on 3 different teams ?
Well I guess when he trades with another GM maybe he can ask to trade himself with another GM taking his place shrug
They can't but you're using the X in Y argument against Lebron and using it illogically. Whether they were "a dynasty" or not who cares.
In addition, the fact Lebron had to win with 3 different back offices and coaches and entire different rosters rather than building from the GOAT coach and arguably GOAT back office is a strike _for_ Lebron not against him, champ.
Think it depends on when you're starting the franchise too. If you're starting in 1984 when nobody was particularly good at basketball and shooting contested jumpers (and not being that good at passing) was considered an asset, then you might want Jordan.
The 80s wasn’t good ?
How old are you ?
U had arguably 4 of the top 5 players ever in that decade with couple incredibly strong team throughout that decade .
The 80s wasn’t good ?
How old are you ?
U had arguably 4 of the top 5 players ever in that decade with couple incredibly strong team throughout that decade .
Game is way more evolved now. We simply know more. There's a reason why nobody takes contested long 2s any more like they did then, and defense is MILES better now.
It was a league conspiracy to get the Lakers the most help so Dinwiddie/Wood are overkill - the Lakers have too many other good players so those guys don't get minutes.. Unfortunately, Lebron's 7 turnovers and ball-dominance puts a lower ceiling on team performance, so his teams get destroyed by superior brands of ball.. Lebron-ball has a lottery record against the now-antiquated spurs, warriors, mavs and magic brand of ball, so it will get destroyed against a prime jokic-ball.. it's over.. another sweep.. denver knows how to put the squeeze on lebron when it matters and exploit his inferior brand of ball.. Lebron has always been weak in the 4th and clutch-time due to high turnovers and low efficiency on jumpshots and FT's - this is exploitable in the clutch
Ultimately, Lebron's ball-dominance lets a defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively - that's why teams get "hot" on bron-ball for 21 years and this includes the 11' Mavs, 09' Magic, 23' Nuggets, 14' Spurs, 17' Warriors - all the top brands go off on bron-ball because they win the attrition battle - they wear down the Lakers with zippy ball movement, so the Lakers have less capacity for offense, while Denver has more capacity as the game goes on (due to resting vs bron's ball-dominance and turnover machine).. I hope no one had their hopes up because 21 years shows us what happens to bron-ball when he isn't getting lucky via teammate bailout.
They can't but you're using the X in Y argument against Lebron and using it illogically. Whether they were "a dynasty" or not who cares.
In addition, the fact Lebron had to win with 3 different back offices and coaches and entire different rosters rather than building from the GOAT coach and arguably GOAT back office is a strike _for_ Lebron not against him, champ.
Well im going with guys that actually created dynasty , that was the question.
It’s ok if u see it that way .
I don’t.
Going around and fishing great teammates isn’t that hard .
KD showed it I suppose .
Garnett.
Shaq too.
Even we can say wilt did it with lakers .
Late years Kidd and Payton did it eventually after many tries .
Ps: I’m not throwing stones at them btw , I just don’t add particular value , as u do , for that narrative.
Game is way more evolved now. We simply know more. There's a reason why nobody takes contested long 2s any more like they did then, and defense is MILES better now.
Defence is miles better so that’s why we see unprecedented numbers of players scoring over 30ppg in regular season with many players scoring 60/70 pts in 1 game …
Yeah it’s way harder to score today , the all stars game was a great example how defence is so important today .
wtf…
Do u really believe mj wouldn’t have even higher stats today ?
Bird would kill the games of today too and many others .
The last ~decade of the Warriors were a dynasty too though.
Defence is miles better so that’s why we see unprecedented numbers of players scoring over 30ppg in regular season with many players scoring 60/70 pts in 1 game …
Yeah it’s way harder to score today , the all stars game was a great example how defence is so important today .
wtf…
Scorers are better now too. Rules are also different.
Yeah youre damn right defenders are better now, of *course* they are, they have decades more data and analytics that have been studied to teach them how to defend.
Watch a game from the 80s compared to now and legit tell me the defensive schemes aren't miles more advanced.
Did you really bring up the all star game?
Scorers are better now too. Rules are also different.
Yeah youre damn right defenders are better now, of *course* they are, they have decades more data and analytics that have been studied to teach them how to defend.
Watch a game from the 80s compared to now and legit tell me the defensive schemes aren't miles more advanced.
Did you really bring up the all star game?
The top 3 players in the league (Jokic, Luka & Giannis) say it's easier to score in the NBA format than the international format - Luka averaged 16 ppg in euroleague
The 80's format is an even tougher version of the international format, so even less spacing and more physicality allowed
accordingly, 87' Jordan would average 45+ today and most people in the know agree with this
I tried watching an NBA finals game from the late 80's recently. Felt like I was watching WNBA.
You've obviously never been within 10 feet of a ball
Accept that Lebron-ball will have another beat down loss of historic variety.. You don't think this will get better, do you?.. it's about to be blowout city lmao.. get ready..
Lol the only thing 80s basketball has going for it is that we only watch the highlights now. The game has come a long way.
And nothing that LeBron does on the court now can hurt him. He's played 500+ games past Jordan's small abbreviated career of early retirements.
But seriously, Jordan was really awesome. Your pathetic LeBron hating is actually bringing Jordan down.
LeBron would make more plays in the 80's, but he'd have fewer FTA per game when you could mug guys. Jordan would shoot 15 a game today.
Look fallguy is just being silly.
LeBron is doing really well. Being the second best player on a 7th seed that will likely get swept in the first round is very impressive for a 39 year old.
👍
Luka is probably the most skilled guy in the NBA right now. He does tons of stuff MJ couldn't dream of doing. Those stepbacks that Harden started doing nobody was doing anything remotely like that back when MJ played. MJ would be some mix of Kawhi and Ant in the current league. Top ten player but not the undisputed pound for pound champion.
Look fallguy is just being silly.
LeBron is doing really well. Being the second best player on a 7th seed that will likely get swept in the first round is very impressive for a 39 year old.
👍
Unironically, yes - winning 47 games and being an all-NBA player at age 39 while averaging 26/8/7 on 54% FG is very impressive. Denver was -350/-400ish to win the series for a reason though.
Curious to see your case as to why AD was better than Lebron overall this year. I have my own take but I’ll allow you to present yours first.
In last year's WCF, Lebron didn't score in the last 3 min of any game
In last year's WCF, Lebron didn't score in the last 3 min of any game
Neither did Jordan
neither did you or I.
similarly, you or I could've replaced Lebron in the 14' Finals and the result would be the same - record loss - so despite the considerable chasm in athletic talent, his brand of ball is no better than yours or mine - it yields worst-ever losses just like you or I would - his brand prevents elite chemistry or teammate development, aka organic, and therefore needs "more help" (talent-based winner beginning in the 2010-2011 season).
again, anyone could've matched Lebron's worst-ever clutch scoring in the 23' WCF (0 points)... He's also 0-7 on the last possession of Finals games that are within 1 possession.. Wouldn't it be cool to replace Bron in those spots and go 0-7 with a damn Finals game on the line??.. Literally zero pressure because Lebron went 0-7 too....
Meanwhile, MJ was 4-8.. Notice how MJ's clutch efficiency is the same as his regular efficiency (zero choke factor), while Lebron's clutch efficiency is far less than his regular efficiency (massive choke factor).. Lebron is 37% overall on game-winners in the playoffs and 0% in the Finals, while MJ was 48-50% on everything (clutch efficiency, game-winner efficiency, RS/PO/Finals).. Of course the superior clutch efficiency is coupled with superior clutch burden.
