GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
Yeah you'd have to consider that in an all time draft. Basically good for 6 years or so, but horrendously bad for the next 30+ years.
Only once have the Bulls/Wiz/Charlotte made it passed the 2nd round of the playoffs in the 28/24/2 years after he left.
And the one time in the combined 56 years... they got smashed by the GOAT of course.
Fallguy you can Google it yourself but **** yeah the Mike Brown angle is being covered
JR Smith was the caliber of 2nd option that teams in the East had, so Lebron had unfair advantages with either Love or Kyrie, let alone both... Every team in the East had 1 star, so why should Lebron get 3???
And obviously the Wade/Bosh tenure was WWE fake league-type stuff... Imagine needing all that to make the Finals... It's the most help that anyone ever needed to make the Finals.
Ultimately, it should surprise no one that once the colluder left the conference, the parity returned... Hooray, the cheating is over... And of course he was exposed out West in 2019 with a lottery record, just like his Finals career against the West.. This required yet another cheating collusion so that AD could save Lebron from the lottery.. Once again, everyone else had 1 franchise player, while Lebron got 2.
JR Smith was the caliber of 2nd option that teams in the East had, so Lebron had unfair advantages with either Love or Kyrie, let alone both... Every team in the East had 1 star, so why should Lebron get 3???And obviously the Wade/Bosh tenure was WWE fake league-type stuff... Imagine needing all that to make the Finals... It's the most help that anyone ever needed to make the F
1996 Bulls had 3 in the top 15 of MVP voting. That never happened when Lebron was at the Heat.
Most help ever.
You can't refute it, so it's dumb
It withstood all challenges because it's the historical record - primary ballhandlers can't produce the best basketball as 1st option, and that's why they can't be in the top 10..
It's literally perfect - it's a 100% legit case to leave Lebron out of the top 10 because I'm not really saying this - HISTORY IS
1996 Bulls had 3 in the top 15 of MVP voting. That never happened when Lebron was at the Heat.
Most help ever.
The need for opposing franchise players at 2nd and 3rd option just to make the Finals is the most help ever.
Lebron needed 2 star teammates to win, while MJ and Kobe won with just 1... And Kobe's 2nd option (Pau) was worse than Lebron's 3rd options (Love, Bosh).
Ultimately, Pippen and Rodman were never considered franchise players, while Wade, AD and Luka were, and so were Bosh, Love, and Kyrie.
Pippen averaged 17 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs, while Rodman averaged 4/8 for the 97' run and wasn't the starter in 98'.. Lebron could never win with such little scoring help or spacing.
^^^^ notice how Lebron's teams failed their OFFENSIVE expectation
^^^ It's unprecedented to take 3 offense-carrying franchise players from 3 different teams and put them on 1 team
And aside from Curry and MJ, who had to build single-digit rookies into meaningful producers to win titles??.. Who had to build their 2nd and 3rd options from nothing???.. Everyone got ready-made stars except them.
^^^ Bosh invented modern PNR defense and would be All-defense alongside Jordan.. He's a better overall basketball player than Pippen or Pau, while his offensive dominance and versatility made him a "franchise player" that teams could build around.
FG - Phil Jackson had nothing to do with the success of the Bulls. He was a second year coach when they won the Championship
FG - Mike Brown is an amazing coach, and he's the reason they made it to the Finals in his second season.
FG - Please ignore everything that happened after that 2nd season for both coaches.
You can't refute it, so it's dumb
It withstood all challenges because it's the historical record - primary ballhandlers can't produce the best basketball as 1st option, and that's why they can't be in the top 10..
It's literally perfect - it's a 100% legit case to leave Lebron out of the top 10 because I'm not really saying this - HISTORY IS
You're theory is dumb because you don't understand causation vs corrolation.
I mean your theory falls in a hole if Steph Curry had taken 2 more shots (or Durant 2 less shots) in 2017. Do you really think the 16-1 result changes if that had happened?
It also relies on the Cavs being 16-5, instead of 16-4 to be a "Dominate Champion", because they played a 73 win team in the Finals (and needed 7 games to win that series). Most of the teams you have as "Dominate Champions" would have lost to that team.
You don't understand basketball and I've been educating you on basics.
The latest example was an explanation for why Lebron, Pippen and MJ were still great defenders even though they slightly reduced the their' team's defensive stats occasionally..
You didn't understand this, so I had to explain how massive spikes in offense have a small costs defensively - aka defensive fundamentals give way to momentum and achieving max offensive flow.. Of course the small dip in DRTG is offset by the huge spike in ORTG, thus ballooning net rating (winning).
It's a long list of things like this that you've been corrected on.. bball 101 stuff
I mean your theory falls in a hole if Steph Curry had taken 2 more shots (or Durant 2 less shots) in 2017. Do you really think the 16-1 result changes if that had happened?
That's how stats work and that's why a big sample was used.
Not much else to say - the theory is logical and holds up.
Again, that's the purpose of a big sample size.
I'm sorry that the numbers over a big sample don't work out in your favor...
The 2016 Warriors and 2009 Cavs were 1-man teams that surprised everyone:
09' MO WILLIAMS..... 2.3 BPM... 3.1 VORP... 0.165 WS/48... 17.6 PER
16' KLAY...................... 1.8 BPM... 2.5 VORP... 0.144 WS/48... 18.6 PER
The only reason the Cavs were down 3-1 to a 1-man team is because Lebron choked for the first 4 games with 24 ppg and 6 TO's per game.. Then he was saved by league suspensions, opponent's injuries, and teammate bailout (the 2nd greatest Finals shot ever behind the Allen miracle).
It's clear that Klay Thompson isn't a franchise player... Accordingly, every team in the league had normal rosters of 1 franchise player, while the Cavs were a "super-team" of 3 franchise players and therefore the preseason favorite..
Unfortunately, Lebron's standard is to barely win 50 games and underachieve with the preseason favorite, and then claim the comp was "just too good" when he loses - the comp was "just too good" after his favored roster barely wins 50 games and eventually loses... This is what his fans/media do, and it's the most fraudulent sh*t ever.
Btw, when a 1-man team wins 66 or 73 games, it shouldn't be surprising when the team runs out of gas in the playoffs and gets beat by a roster that was more favored initially.
The real issue is that the term "73 win team" implies "stacked", and doesn't consider that it could be a 1-man team... 1-man teams can't win 66 or 73 games, according to Lebron fans
He was a rookie coach that inherited a team on the cusp of the Finals, and he was wrong about the triangle spreading the wealth or reducing Jordan's shots/scoring.
The triangle is the most top-heavy offense ever that required goat burdens from the 1st option, and without dribbling the ball much!!!... It's the strictest and most hated offense ever - that's what Jordan won with, and he put the offense and Phil on the map.
If you were a great player in the 2000's East, you probably carried a 1-star team to the Finals, such as Iverson, Dwight, and Kidd (twice).
Furthermore, "The Decision" proved that the 07' run was a fluke and that Lebron actually can't make the Finals... He needed to team-up with opposing franchise players, which is the definition of not being able to make it normally..
History shows that Lebron can't make the Finals with normal rosters of 1 franchise player, and needs the unfair advantage of getting 2nd and 3rd franchise players that no other team has.
FG - Please ignore everything that happened after that 2nd season for both coaches.
Brown inherited a lottery team in 2006, while Phil inherited a team on the cusp of the Finals and the 3rd-best team in the league.
Secondly, there was a 1-star organic chip up for grabs in 2011 that Dirk grabbed, but the Cavs would've had the organic chemistry and reputed defense to beat the Mavs (things the Heat lacked)..
Accordingly, Mike Brown could've had an organic dynasty in Cleveland, but LeQuit gave up too early.. Brown still won 66 and 62 games in Cleveland, and then he turned around THE FRIEKING KINGS (his most impressive achievement imo), and now he's got the Knicks playing better than any team ever has ..
Brown also led Nigeria over our Dream Team, so he's a HOF coach and one of the greatest coaches ever.
The table shows that the Bulls' expectation on both ends was low compared to Lebron's Heat or Cavs, and also that Lebron's teams drastically underachieved offensively (aka "Bron-ball", aka the worst chemistry ever, and the most underachieving rosters ever)
I guarantee that Wemby was lethargic because he didn't EAT sufficiently after game 4.. He needed to drink about 4 or 5 Tru Moo's right after Game 4.
And Jalen Williams doesn't drink water, so he's always pulling his hamstring.
This stuff might sound dumb, but I'm speaking from experience.. Young people always cut corners and think they can get by without basic stuff.. Trainers and chefs drop the ball and make mistakes (assess a player's needs incorrectly - it happens)
2010 BOSH..... 25.0 PER... 0.182 WS/48... 3.6 BPM... 3.6 VORP
2007 PAU........ 24.1 PER... 0.155 WS/48... 3.6 BPM... 3.0 VORP
2010 LOVE...... 26.9 PER... 0.245 WS/48... 8.9 BPM... 7.7 VORP
2007 PAU........ 24.1 PER... 0.155 WS/48... 3.6 BPM... 3.0 VORP
^^^ Kobe won with a 2nd option that was worse than Lebron's 3rd options..
Even Jamison compared favorably to Pau as a 2x all-star compared to Pau's 1x (prior to joining Kobe).
It's also insane how good Love was - he was considered a dominant franchise player
I also remember when Kobe achieved the 1 seed in the West with just Bynum - this was right before Bynum got hurt and Pau arrived.. Kobe treated Bynum like he was Shaq and believed he could win with him.
Bosh destroying Pau futuristically, and then Kobe closes:
Could Lebron have won with JUST BOSH like kobe did with Pau?? Of course not - lebron needed a kobe-level player at sidekick (Wade) and then a player that was better than Pau at 3rd option (Bosh)... Then he duplicated this with another historic closer (Kyrie) and another 3rd option that was better than Pau (Love).
Offensively limitted Wemby with 22 first half points.
So limitted.
Kobe being about equal with Wade sounds about right.
So Wade is now tied for 2nd GOAT?
No, I think FG has finally realised Kobe wasn't that good. Maybe 15-20 GOAT range.
Kobe was the best player in the league FOR SURE in 2007 and 2008.
He was a 3-time champion, MVP, and dominated the Spurs in the playoffs.. Meanwhile, the same Spurs made Lebron play worse than anyone ever has (no one ever shot 35% with 6 TO's in a series).. The 08' Celtics duplicated this worst-ever performance by Lebron, and then he had 3 straight upset losses from 09' to 11'..
So Lebron wasn't the best player until 2012, and then that ended in 15' when Curry, Kawhi, Giannis, Jokic, SGA and Wemby took over (in that order).
.
People were certain that Kobe was the best in 2010 (fast-forward to the very end):
And 2001:
