2025 Las Vegas Summer Series - non-WSOP
Thread was requested by another user. This is to track all non-WSOP summer series for 2025.
What is everyone looking forward to?
Wynn is always great to play. I'll try to find something to play there if it fits my schedule and budget. Wynn tournaments get spendy during the summer.
Last summer I really enjoyed Resorts World for low budget dailies/nightlies. I'll probably try to play a few of those in 2025.
I expect dates for non-WSOP venues to start trickling out in March-April after the WSOP announcement.
Based on recent years, one would expect series at Orleans, Golden Nugget, Resorts World, MGM Grand, Aria, Venetian, and Wynn.
Not a fan of the Nugget's grand series? They're generally in the $250-600 range depending on the event. And their thurs-SaT series have 9 starting flights that usually get the total entrants close to 2k, and you're looking at a softer field than the other properties you mentioned(with the exception of Orleans, I find the competition pretty similar).
It's notably worse competition? I figured nugget might be given the downtown crowd but I thought Orleans was the spot for good playing locals avoiding the wsop?
How good are the daily structures at wsop ? I heard they were pretty bad year after year but not sure
They are not Deep stack in real sense. Dailies are 1 day tournaments.
WSOP expects them to finish by 2am or so.
Many times they get 1200 to 1600 runners.
And levels are kept to finish the tournament in timely manner with those big number of player in mind .
How good are the daily structures at wsop ? I heard they were pretty bad year after year but not sure
If you are looking for a low buy in tournament with a nice prizepool that finishes in 1 day the structures are fine. Assuming they don't change them, here are the structures from last year.
https://www.wsop.com/pdfs/reports/20663/...
esp if you also are cool with trading good structure late with a structure that gives you a few "mulligans" early. You play several levels pretty deep in them to start, which means busting super fast is fairly rare (though not that rare as you have lots of big pots pretty early often since you have more people to flops and also people who raise bigger pre), but the compromise to that is skipping levels late and having average stacks in the 10-20 BB range when the big money is decided.
The deep stack structures I think are fine for what they are. The evening ones were finishing after 2am IRC
Oh wow wtf didn't know they got 1k entrants thats ****ing insane!!
I usually go first week of wsop so maybe they dont run them as much or as many entrants or something but thats awesome they get that many entrants if people are looking for something cheap but enterable
thx for hte info maybe I might play for a night
i see the diff between the 200$ one and 250$ one is that you get 5k more chips to start
Broken record here at this point, but if you can make it down to RWLV instead of playing in that upstairs Horseshoe room, you're going to get a better quality tournament with lower rake. Resorts were only taking $50 out of the $400s last year, compared to WSOP taking $50 out of the 1PM $250. I'm not a fan of the daily deepstacks. The 1PM is a 10-handed rake trap (albeit extremely beatable). The nightly events go hyper fast. Resorts is better for both dailies and nightlies in that price range.
If you simply want something to play, the daily deepstacks are an option, but I don't think they're a good option. You pay for convenience and for WSOP branding.
Broken record here at this point, but if you can make it down to RWLV instead of playing in that upstairs Horseshoe room, you're going to get a better quality tournament with lower rake. Resorts were only taking $50 out of the $400s last year, compared to WSOP taking $50 out of the 1PM $250. I'm not a fan of the daily deepstacks. The 1PM is a 10-handed rake trap (albeit extremely beatable). The nightly events go hyper fast. Resorts is better for both dailies and nightlies in that price range.
If
OH YOURE RIGHT, i normall yonly play wsop events once ayear casual player here, colossus usually.
but i feel getting 1k players means 100 players get paid while resorts world only has 120 entrants and pays 7 people
im casual bad player so while youre correct its nice to see larger fields too, if i dont play colossuys ill play one of the tourneys you mentoned or have been
Broken record here at this point, but if you can make it down to RWLV instead of playing in that upstairs Horseshoe room, you're going to get a better quality tournament with lower rake. Resorts were only taking $50 out of the $400s last year, compared to WSOP taking $50 out of the 1PM $250. I'm not a fan of the daily deepstacks. The 1PM is a 10-handed rake trap (albeit extremely beatable). The nightly events go hyper fast. Resorts is better for both dailies and nightlies in that price range.
If
You may be right. But problem with RWLS is their average attendance is between 75-150. On other hand WSOP 1pm daily has average of 500-600 players. Huge difference in Prize Pool .
If I have 4/5 dailies in my itinerary during WSOP . I will stick to WSOP 1pm daily.
OH YOURE RIGHT, i normall yonly play wsop events once ayear casual player here, colossus usually.
but i feel getting 1k players means 100 players get paid while resorts world only has 120 entrants and pays 7 people
WSOP pays 15% across the board. RW was around 10-12% last year, which is more typical (on par with Venetian, Wynn, Aria).
Not sure where you are getting 120 entries and 7 spots paid. That doesn't sound accurate.
https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/festiva...
Some may prefer a larger field for the chance at a bigger first prize. Huge fields aren't inherently better though. Along with the higher prize pool comes higher variance and a lower probability of making the final table. Personally, I don't like very small tournaments (25-35 entries), but anything over 100 is big enough.
Broken record here at this point, but if you can make it down to RWLV instead of playing in that upstairs Horseshoe room, you're going to get a better quality tournament with lower rake. Resorts were only taking $50 out of the $400s last year, compared to WSOP taking $50 out of the 1PM $250. I'm not a fan of the daily deepstacks. The 1PM is a 10-handed rake trap (albeit extremely beatable). The nightly events go hyper fast. Resorts is better for both dailies and nightlies in that price range.
If
WSOP 1pm daily gets around 500-600 on average.
RWLS gets on average less than 150
Here is actual figures from last year.
June 6 Entries 152
June 7 Entries 105
June 8. Saturday Entries 160
June 9. Entries 98
June 10. Entries 158
June 11. Entries 133
June 12. Entries 148
June 13. Entries 100
June 14. Entries 91
June 15. Entries 70.
But again if the WSOP dailies are cancelled ( which happens, due to big tournaments) RWLV is one of the daily I will play
Everyone has their own preferences.
This is what's great about WSOP time in Vegas, there's something for everybody across buy-in's, structures and locations.
I assume the 250$ is the "better" structure slightly and its the one that starts at 1pm?
I tried the daily at RW, and the level was very bad... much worse than the WSOP daily, which I’ve played several times. The main difference between them is, of course, the attendance, which is on a completely different scale. But also, at RW, the attendance is limited by the very small number of tables they dedicate to the daily, leading to a lot of alternates.
At RW, the playing conditions are very comfortable, and they use automatic shufflers, which means you get to play a lot more hands. This makes the structure much better. However, you’ll never win $30k like in the WSOP daily!
Competition is the answer.
As soon as one puts out their schedule, everyone competing for their market share will just snipe every event they can to try to pull away from each other.
Place A running a 2-7 on a random Tuesday? Place B will pop in a competing event with a better structure to pull those players to their venue.
At the end of the day it's the players who lose because they can't craft up their own playing schedule schedule until later and later.
Competition is the answer.
As soon as one puts out their schedule, everyone competing for their market share will just snipe every event they can to try to pull away from each other.
Place A running a 2-7 on a random Tuesday? Place B will pop in a competing event with a better structure to pull those players to their venue.
At the end of the day it's the players who lose because they can't craft up their own playing schedule schedule until later and later.
I just pick an 8-10 day window in mid-June and book room and flight several months out. Once the schedules drop, I start planning my tournament play. I booked 8 nights at Cosmo (4 comped) June 10-18 back in November. WSOP options for me look like; $1.5k Turbo Bounty, $3k Freeezeout, $1.5k Monster Stack, $1.5k Horse, $1k PLO, $1.5k Razz, $0.5k Salute to Warriors. I kind of like the 2-3 day tournaments better than the 5-6 days. Last thing I want to do is play a $1.5k for 4 days and get little more than a min-cash. The last few years, I bounced between WSOP, MGM Grand Series, and Venetian. I'll wait to see what the others drop in the coming weeks. I'll probably play the WSOP Salute to Warriors, a Venetian $600, and an MGM Grand $400. I'm not too worried about schedules. I'll be in Vegas, and I will play a lot of poker. No worries.
Competition is the answer.
As soon as one puts out their schedule, everyone competing for their market share will just snipe every event they can to try to pull away from each other.
Place A running a 2-7 on a random Tuesday? Place B will pop in a competing event with a better structure to pull those players to their venue.
At the end of the day it's the players who lose because they can't craft up their own playing schedule schedule until later and later.
Meh, maybe.
For non-NLH events, potential player pools are smaller. If Place A runs a non-NLH event on Tuesday, I would schedule mine on Monday or Wednesday to avoid clashing and maximize player turnout. Coordinating with WSOP schedules can be key; for instance, if WSOP has a $1500 O/8 event on Tuesday, I'd run a $500 O/8 event on Monday or Wednesday.
I do something similar to what tenesmus does. WSOP releases schedules, book an 8-10 day window that suits my interest and availability. On non-WSOP days, I check for other interesting events usually the night before.
If you are not playing WSOP events, then yeah you need to wait longer to choose an intended week based on other venue events.
Oh wow wtf didn't know they got 1k entrants thats ****ing insane!!
I usually go first week of wsop so maybe they dont run them as much or as many entrants or something but thats awesome they get that many entrants if people are looking for something cheap but enterable
thx for hte info maybe I might play for a night
i see the diff between the 200$ one and 250$ one is that you get 5k more chips to start
The first week of DDS have a lower number of entrants...but attendance grows significantly by the 5th day, usually. The $250 DDS starts at 1PM with 30 min levels, and normally gets between 700-1100 entries, depending on what bracelet event is running that day. The $200 DDS doesn't start until 8PM and levels are only 20 minutes. Usually between 100-200 entries.
"I assume the 250$ is the "better" structure slightly and its the one that starts at 1pm? "
Yes it is better, remember it's a 1 day event, so it's a good compromise, as opposed to a multi flight/day tourney.
Broken record here at this point, but if you can make it down to RWLV instead of playing in that upstairs Horseshoe room, you're going to get a better quality tournament with lower rake. Resorts were only taking $50 out of the $400s last year, compared to WSOP taking $50 out of the 1PM $250. I'm not a fan of the daily deepstacks. The 1PM is a 10-handed rake trap (albeit extremely beatable). The nightly events go hyper fast. Resorts is better for both dailies and nightlies in that price range.
If
I'll pay a slightly higher percentage rake considering it's the same absolute amount, plus I don't have to pay parking at WSOP. 400 for a daily is too much for me, How many entrants do they typically get? If it's only 30 or 400 that's another strike against RW.
I tried the daily at RW, and the level was very bad... much worse than the WSOP daily, which I’ve played several times. The main difference between them is, of course, the attendance, which is on a completely different scale. But also, at RW, the attendance is limited by the very small number of tables they dedicate to the daily, leading to a lot of alternates.
At RW, the playing conditions are very comfortable, and they use automatic shufflers, which means you get to play a lot more hands. This
I'll never win $30k in the WSOP daily either.
I'll pay a slightly higher percentage rake considering it's the same absolute amount, plus I don't have to pay parking at WSOP. 400 for a daily is too much for me, How many entrants do they typically get? If it's only 30 or 400 that's another strike against RW.
Anyone curious about their 2024 series can just look at the data for themselves:
https://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/festiva...
Convenience of venues is going to be player-dependent. I don't drive in Vegas, so I don't care about parking. On the other hand, Resorts World is pretty far away from where I usually stay. Presumably some people will stay at Wynn, Fontainebleau, TI, and RWLV itself this summer.
I tried the daily at RW, and the level was very bad... much worse than the WSOP daily, which I’ve played several times. The main difference between them is, of course, the attendance, which is on a completely different scale. But also, at RW, the attendance is limited by the very small number of tables they dedicate to the daily, leading to a lot of alternates.
At RW, the playing conditions are very comfortable, and they use automatic shufflers, which means you get to play a lot more hands. This
oh wow I thought level of play would be low for both. that makes sense tho i never did the wsop daily but i am interested in it a bit.
The first week of DDS have a lower number of entrants...but attendance grows significantly by the 5th day, usually. The $250 DDS starts at 1PM with 30 min levels, and normally gets between 700-1100 entries, depending on what bracelet event is running that day. The $200 DDS doesn't start until 8PM and levels are only 20 minutes. Usually between 100-200 entries.
"I assume the 250$ is the "better" structure slightly and its the one that starts at 1pm? "
Yes it is better, remember it's a 1 day event
yeah seems id rather go with the 250$ but if the level of play is that much harder than resorts I will have to thik about it, I didn't know entrants were low the first week of wsop., i assumed it alwasy got 500-600 but as you said, it ramps up.
Meh, maybe.
For non-NLH events, potential player pools are smaller. If Place A runs a non-NLH event on Tuesday, I would schedule mine on Monday or Wednesday to avoid clashing and maximize player turnout. Coordinating with WSOP schedules can be key; for instance, if WSOP has a $1500 O/8 event on Tuesday, I'd run a $500 O/8 event on Monday or Wednesday.
I do something similar to what tenesmus does. WSOP releases schedules, book an 8-10 day window that suits my interest and availability. On non-WSO
As someone who works for one of these establishments in a capacity to know the details, I can tell you it's not speculation and 100% what is happening. It's unfortunate and we wish it was different so we could publish the schedule much quicker, but we have to try and protect our event lineups as best we can.
As someone who works for one of these establishments in a capacity to know the details, I can tell you it's not speculation and 100% what is happening. It's unfortunate and we wish it was different so we could publish the schedule much quicker, but we have to try and protect our event lineups as best we can.
WSOP is the big dog - it only makes sense to wrap your schedule around similar events to increase your potential player pool. That it occurs is most easily seen in the Senior events. Almost every casino will hold their own Senior or Super Sr events between June 14th and June 25th, which corresponds to the WSOP time frames. No one else would have a Sr on the 16th or 17th it would be financial suicide
