Pre flop check up posts.
I thought it would be helpful to start an ongoing thread where people can post pre flop situations they have questions about. I realize that what once may have been a fold could be a call these days. Hopefully we can hone in on what the winners are doing these days
Provide relevant reads, position, image, number of players, what game etc. If you can explain the reasoning behind your response that would be great.
I'll start with a couple. 8/16 9 handed. My image is tight but capable of opening or isolating lightly.
Hand 1) loose UTG limps, Loose CO calls, I have Kd4d on the button. Blinds are TAGs.
Hand 2) loose UTG limps, tight and st forward post flop HJ raises(88+ AQ+ KJs+ ATs+), very loose and big time calling staton calls in CO, folded to us in SB with Ac6c. BB is tight.
I'm hoping this can be a place where anytime you run into that marginal spot you can post it and learn.
Thanks!
I wonder what is more profitable, bring seen as a nit but can play LAG in some sorts....or
Being seen as a LAGTAG but you always have to prove the hand you are repping....
Again, my point is not about how one's image impacts their EV in individual hands. It's about generating substantially more EV overall for yourself by cultivating a better game.
FWIW, in LHE I also happen to think a looser image is better for strategic reasons, but it's not part of my argument.
Is anybody calling with worse hands here?
A9o is weird because I feel like 3 betting this but I would hate to play this MW OOP. It would be gross if the BB called. I usually just fold it. I could be talked into calling since a lot has changed since I first read HFAP.
77's seems to be the point where I would consider a 3 bet. I would always three bet 88's+
The rest of these seem like reasonable calls. QTo feels a little sketch but is probably fine.
I'd call with some worse hands but not a ton of them.
Bad and very loose aggressive pre and post player open limps UTG...He likes to donk the flop with all kinds of stuff. , It's folded to a solid TAG who raises in the LJ. I am next to act. The pots have usually been ending up 4-6 way. The final pots have been huge due to a lot of action and a lot of chasers. The TAG will often check the flop it it's MW and he missed. The BB plays every hand. The CO and Button are TAG/Fish/Regs.
I have 9s7s.
I think this is a slamdunk fold. We don't know this is going to end up multiway for two bets, and this could easily be a l/rr from the maniac and we're going to end up in a capped pot. If this is going to be a big multiway pot, we gobble up equity in those by having big, nutty draws, not middling ones. It really does matter that a lot of the time we're up against a better flush draw and other scenarios where our odds are far worse than they appear.
Bad and very loose aggressive pre and post player open limps UTG...He likes to donk the flop with all kinds of stuff. , It's folded to a solid TAG who raises in the LJ. I am next to act. The pots have usually been ending up 4-6 way. The final pots have been huge due to a lot of action and a lot of chasers. The TAG will often check the flop it it's MW and he missed. The BB plays every hand. The CO and Button are TAG/Fish/Regs.
I have 9s7s.
I fold. Our absolute and relative position is not great and the players don’t play passively enough post to justify a loose call.
97 a fold there you cant win ‘em all.
Bad and very loose aggressive pre and post player open limps UTG...He likes to donk the flop with all kinds of stuff. , It's folded to a solid TAG who raises in the LJ. I am next to act. The pots have usually been ending up 4-6 way. The final pots have been huge due to a lot of action and a lot of chasers. The TAG will often check the flop it it's MW and he missed. The BB plays every hand. The CO and Button are TAG/Fish/Regs.
I have 9s7s.
I saw a TAG who crushes the game make this call. I thought it was bad at the time but maybe this game has passed me by regarding what is correct pre flop. Maybe he thinks it was loose but he did it anyway. I was the solid TAG and had JJ's. He raised my flop bet on 752r. I had been running horribly and immediately put him on a set and just called down. He hit trip 7's on the turn. My scared passivity saved me some money. In fairness I didn't put him on the type of hand he had.
Maybe he doesn’t see you as a solid tag (not necessarily a bad thing)
If I thought I was going to have the best absolute position against 2-3 bozos and a straightforward tag who will often check if he misses, I would very seriously consider calling 97s. I'd definitely call 98s and J9s. 97s is not a great hand and I don't think it's a slam dunk call by any means, but you want to play multi-way pots in position against bad players and this seems like a reasonable spot to take a flyer with a speculative hand.
His relative position is terrible though.
Honestly I hate that spot in general if I don't have a really big hand.
If there hadn't been an early limper, I would just reraise any hand I'm going to play, buy how low I go depends on how good the other guy plays and how likely I am to get it hu.
If the raise had come early and then there was a cold caller (or preferably more than one), I'm going to tighten up my reraise range but call pretty wide. 97s may be too wide, but 98s is perfectly reasonable.
This exact spot is very tricky and I've never known how it should be best played. Being the first to cold call any raise just feels very weak and I rarely see players I respect making that play. But maybe some hands should be played this way, at least against villains who will not be able to read your narrow range well.
I am definitely interested in knowing what others think about this spot and what hands should call, if any.
Some people will raise a limp looser than they'd open raise for whatever bonkers reason. Unless you know that is the case, you should assume the raise is a materially stronger range than that player's opening range from that position. In theory, there may be some way to construct a cold call range, but I think the ev benefit of doing so has to be pretty marginal and it's much easier to just play 3b/fold with a tighter 3b range than you'd normally use, prioritizing hands that have more durable equity. So, basically, I'd lop off more offsuit hands and small pairs than suited hands.
EP limps, A tight LJ raises (This is AQ+, TT+), He has a tight limping range. There are two more callers, A tight nit SB 3 bets (This is QQ's+) I am in the BB.
What is the worst Ace suited hand you are calling?
What is the worst unsuited Ace you are calling?
What is the worst suited connector you are calling?
The LJ will probably only cap QQ's+. The SB will c bet 100%.
EP limps, A tight LJ raises (This is AQ+, TT+), He has a tight limping range. There are two more callers, A tight nit SB 3 bets (This is QQ's+) I am in the BB.
What is the worst Ace suited hand you are calling?
What is the worst unsuited Ace you are calling?
What is the worst suited connector you are calling?
The LJ will probably only cap QQ's+. The SB will c bet 100%.
I would probably call suited Ace-wheel, suited connectors down to 56s or so, and any two suited broadway cards. I would definitely call AKo but probably fold any other unsuited Ax hand if these people are really as tight as you claim.
What is your default opening range of non suited Aces from the HJ and the CO?
EP open limps. He is loose and does open raise quite a bit. He seems to be very sticky post flop once he calls the flop. The blinds are average Tag/fish regs who don't over defend their blinds.
It's folded to me on the button. What are you doing with these?
8c6c
As5c
J9o
K6s
Maybe raise the ace and the king, fold the other two? Not limping anything.
half kill. The killer is in the LJ and acts last unless there is a raise ahead of him.
UTG open limps, folded to the HJ who raises. I am on the button with Ad6d. The blinds are tight.
UTG is an old man who plays every hand. I don't know if he would ever limp and fold to a three bet. I've never seen him before. The killer will call a single raise 100% but will fold if it is 3 bet a decent amount. The HJ is a TAG fish. His range here is probably pretty tight...88+ KQs+ AJo+ ATs+. He limps and over limps often.
I normally wouldn't 3 bet the HJ if it was heads up. I kind of feel like this might be a spot to widen my raising range and potentially create some dead money in position. Should I just call? Should I just fold?
If your range on the HJ is correct I fold here.
half kill. The killer is in the LJ and acts last unless there is a raise ahead of him.
UTG open limps, folded to the HJ who raises. I am on the button with Ad6d. The blinds are tight.
UTG is an old man who plays every hand. I don't know if he would ever limp and fold to a three bet. I've never seen him before. The killer will call a single raise 100% but will fold if it is 3 bet a decent amount. The HJ is a TAG fish. His range here is probably pretty tight...88+ KQs+ AJo+ ATs+. He limps and o
with a limper im even more inclined to fold
and id rather 3b A2-A5s. A6s is much worse imo.
Fold.
The opener has you crushed
half kill. The killer is in the LJ and acts last unless there is a raise ahead of him.
UTG open limps, folded to the HJ who raises. I am on the button with Ad6d. The blinds are tight.
UTG is an old man who plays every hand. I don't know if he would ever limp and fold to a three bet. I've never seen him before. The killer will call a single raise 100% but will fold if it is 3 bet a decent amount. The HJ is a TAG fish. His range here is probably pretty tight...88+ KQs+ AJo+ ATs+. He limps and o
I'd grumble and fold. I agree with KCK that Ace-wheel suited plays a lot better here. If the blinds were exceptionally loose I'd consider cold calling (and would potentially coldcall worse).
half kill. The killer is in the LJ and acts last unless there is a raise ahead of him.
UTG open limps, folded to the HJ who raises. I am on the button with Ad6d. The blinds are tight.
UTG is an old man who plays every hand. I don't know if he would ever limp and fold to a three bet. I've never seen him before. The killer will call a single raise 100% but will fold if it is 3 bet a decent amount. The HJ is a TAG fish. His range here is probably pretty tight...88+ KQs+ AJo+ ATs+. He limps and o
Your read on the HJ is doing all the heavy lifting here. His range is way too tight for you to get in there with a hand like A6s. But normally I'd be fistpump getting it in with A6s against two bad players and a post.
Your read on the HJ is doing all the heavy lifting here. His range is way too tight for you to get in there with a hand like A6s. But normally I'd be fistpump getting it in with A6s against two bad players and a post.
By "getting it in" are you calling or 3 betting?
In this spot against the tight raiser when do you consider the 3 bet? A8s? A9s?
It's folded to me in the HJ. The CO and Button are cold calling machines. They both chase to the river often. They both have a reasonable pre flop 3 bet range. I'd estimate there is a 25% chance that both fold if I raise. There is around a 50% chance at least one calls. The blinds are tight.
Should I be eliminating the bottom of my range here? What do you do with these?
55's
QTo
A8o
78s
A2s
