Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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ICJ: The International Court of Justice at The Hague gave its interim ruling on emergency orders relating to South Africa's petition accusing Israel of committing genocide in Gaza. The ICJ stopped short of ordering an cease-fire, but a large majority of the 17-judge panel voted for six urgent provisional measures:
1. For Israel to take "all measures" to prevent acts of genocide from taking place
2. To ensure the IDF does not engage in any acts of genocide
3. To prevent and punish public incitement to genocide, including by government and military officials
4. To enable basic services and humanitarian aid to reach Gazan civilians
5. To preserve evidence related to violations of Genocide Convention
6. To submit a report to the ICJ within one month on all measures taken
Israel's foreign ministry said that Israel remains committed to abide by international law. PM Netanyahu said the court's decision "rightly rejected the outrageous demand to deny" Israel the right to basic self-defense, but added that the court's willingness to discuss the claim that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza "is a mark of disgrace that will not be erased for generations."
What's the endgame of the current situation? What's going to happen 3-6-12o this from now?
Article 2 of the Convention defines genocide as
... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly tran
Any disputes here or are we all in agreement?
What's the endgame of the current situation? What's going to happen 3-6-12o this from now?
Was just listening to a great interview on this.
1) The Saudis are guaranteed to normalize and want a pact with Israel to help develop the next 50+ years of the region. They and others want assurances that if Gaza is rebuilt, it's not just bombed again in 10 years. So you need someone stable governing it.
2) Sinwar can't give up all the hostages. He needs 10-20-30 to stay alive and barter. So if he trades 100 of them in the coming negotiation, he can still use his remaining hostages to free 1000+ Hamas prisoners. So the thought is Israel can get some of the hostages back, but can never get them all.
3) They have Khan Yunis surrounded right now, so this would be the second last big battle in Gaza. There's only one more spot with heavy Hamas density with any sort of structure.
4) So the Israelis will continue the battle for Khan Yunis and take Hamas down to a level where the Arab world, most likely without the USA, can actively participate in the placement and support of the next government. This government is granted a very long stepped approach to statehood. This sounds like Gaza being policed and supported by soldiers from other Arab nations.
All this has to happen with a centrist or right of center government. No way can it be Bibi. They need a fresh canvas.
absolute delusion
Was just listening to a great interview on this.
1) The Saudis are guaranteed to normalize and want a pact with Israel to help develop the next 50+ years of the region. They and others want assurances that if Gaza is rebuilt, it's not just bombed again in 10 years. So you need someone stable governing it.
2) Sinwar can't give up all the hostages. He needs 10-20-30 to stay alive and barter. So if he trades 100 of them in the coming negotiation, he can still use his remaining hostages to free 1000
Part 4 is what i keep saying and everyone says I'm nuts
But arab forces are going to have to police gaza, and i expect saudi and qatar to be 2 of them
hopefully Israel swaps for the hostages. Im more cynical and think they will just try to kill the hostages and then kill all the Gazans.
Whatever the agreement is, if it's going to lead to statehood, there will need to be a good number of years of peace first. That won't happen without arab forces. And they realize that
As I've been saying, the Saudi deal is the key to everything
you really think the Gazans wont attack Arab prison guards? straight up delusion. a fundamental misunderstanding of what drives Gazans and people in general.
there wont be peace until the Gazans are dead, removed, or the occupation is lifted.
and your desired situation doesnt even make sense. if the Gazans give a couple years of peace, then what incentive would there be to give them a state? it would probably be the first time in history that freedom and a state was granted that way.
straight up delusion.
Article 2 of the Convention defines genocide as
... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly tran
The issue is, the you and victors of the world think israel has:
with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
The court, and most sane nonantisemites, may hate what is happening but do not believe that is Israel's intent in any way shape or form
The court asked that israel do all that is possible to minimize civilian deaths but that israel does have the right to get hamas out of power and is not to this point committing genocide
So you pointing that a b and c are happening while ignore the entire introduction to the definition isn't even tricky. It's straight up bullshit propoganda
4) So the Israelis will continue the battle for Khan Yunis and take Hamas down to a level where the Arab world, most likely without the USA, can actively participate in the placement and support of the next government. This government is granted a very long stepped approach to statehood. This sounds like Gaza being policed and supported by soldiers from other Arab nations.
What was the argument for not wanting USA involved? I thought almost everyone involved does.
Oh maybe I misread what "placement and support" of the government means. Yeah if that means troops in Gaza then never mind.
but we all know that Israel will not comply bc they believe the holocaust gives them cover to do their own genocide.
This isn’t accurate. The Holocaust gave them trauma and much of their reaction is explainable through that lens. I’m not saying it is justified, but it is explainable and not nefarious. The fact that you claim the above does set off a lot of alarm bells.
The issue is, the you and victors of the world think israel has:
with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
The court, and most sane nonantisemites, may hate what is happening but do not believe that is Israel's intent in any way shape or form
The court asked that israel do all that is possible to minimize civilian deaths but that israel does have the right to get hamas out of power and is not to this point committing genocide
So you point
No intent? That's laughable at this point. Destroy every piece of real estate square foot in an area but there is somehow no intent.
