Covid-19 Discussion
Has the wisdom and courage to realize that the cure has now become worse than the disease. It's time to open up. Stop moving the ball.
Hospital systems have not been overwhelmed.
Ventilators are not in shortage.
Treatments are being developed.
There is no cure or vaccine. This is not going away for four years.
The devastation of the cure:
Suicide rates picking up.
Massive economic devastation which causes depression, anxiety, obesity, again increase in suicide rates and directly impacts poorer economic areas.
Alcohol sales up 51%.
Domestic Abuse on the uprise
Child abuse on the uprise.
Hospitals that do not have COVID related issues are forced to lay off doctors and nurses as there are not enough patients to economically support it, meaning they won't have the staff to deal with COVID outbreaks.
Michael Avenatti gets released from prison
We all did our part. We sheltered (here in Pennsylvania for 5 weeks already).
Open the office buildings. Open the hair saloons. Get rid of stupid mask laws.
Continue to monitor outbreaks and in areas hospital systems become threatened, reenact tougher guidelines.
LET'S GET BACK TO WORK!
And stop shaming people that want common sense solutions. Waiting for a vaccine is stupid and unpractical.
The marginal return from lockdowns in terms of lives saved was not worth how much money it cost to do those lockdowns.
Everyone was emotional and irrational back then when I made these claims, but 3 years later its even more true and obvious.
It's because you are a lemming and fellow along like everyone else without using critical thinking skills.
2 months is what it takes to achieve herd immunity almost every where there was a rip through giving the R values.
Sorry if I used data instead of critical thinking without data ….
And yet after 3 months , Alberta had to return to high restrictives policies !
It passes your 2 months time frames ….what happened ?
Maybe u just plainly wrong …..
Sorry if I used data instead of critical thinking without data ….
And yet after 3 months , Alberta had to return to high restrictives policies !
It passes your 2 months time frames ….what happened ?
Maybe u just plainly wrong …..
By end of June of 2020 most republican states had re-opened and the all the restrictions lifted by September without coming back. No collapse in sight.
The only mistake they made was not re-opening sooner 100% zero restrictions for everyone under 65, while continuing to lock down the 65+.
Everything about this virus itself was a near certainty by mid April 2020.
We knew the death rates amongst demographics, we knew it was a gigantic nothing burger for the young. We knew with certainty by mid April 2020 that lockdowns were absolutely failure of a policy to kill off covid. The only sensible thing to do at that point end of April 2020 was the mass re-openings for everyone under 65 and let it rip everywhere.
Nothing you wrote is accurate. The cumulative COVID-19 USA death toll in mid April 2020 was only 25,000, nowhere near enough to yield a complete picture of how the mortality would play out across age cohorts. The first USA lockdown was in March 2020, so to claim they were a failure just a month later (and with certainty) is absurd and completely unsubstantiated.
WTf are you talking about? Stop what?
We lock down the olds, 65+ and let it rip everyone else.
Nursing home caretakers would also be placed under strict restrictions and we would print money to alleviate their increased burdens.
What I’m talking about ?
U think COVID only appeared in nursing home ?
For your information not all 65+ lives in nursing home !
And at 60 years old , COVID was already at that age pretty dangerous and the population of 60 to 65 is already representing 6% of the population and they aren’t living in nursing home .
And many people in that age group still works !
So I have no idea why u keep repeating non sense statistic like we did all of this for only 2% of the population .
It’s far more !
Nothing you wrote is accurate. The cumulative COVID-19 USA death toll in mid April 2020 was only 25,000, nowhere near enough to yield a complete picture of how the mortality would play out across age cohorts. The first USA lockdown was in March 2020, so to claim they were a failure just a month later (and with certainty) is absurd and completely unsubstantiated.
Agree
At the minimum u had to wait for vaccine to be distributed at a minimum….
The numbers are incredibly telling how different people end up in intensive care while being unvaccinated vs vaccinated people .
https://www.worldometers.info/coronaviru...
In April 2020 US didn’t even reach any peak yet in deaths or infected rates .
No idea how tien can say at that time it was already a done deal
Yeah, but when you see the same thing consistently happening in multiple places such as at the county level as the author outlines in the article then questions need to be asked. It may not be definitive proof but it's a signal that points to something going on that should be investigated at the very least. Something non-covid is causing excess mortality to consistently coincide with vaccine uptake rates across multiple locations. What is that something?
Of course questions need to be asked but the article you quoted presented conclusions, not questions. The purpose of most observational studies is to yield clues on what to investigate next - it represents the starting point of further research, not the endpoint claimed by your quoted author. The easiest way to differentiate a medical researcher from someone spewing bullshit from their basement is how freely they state definitive conclusions based on practically zero conclusive evidence.
Nothing you wrote is accurate. The cumulative COVID-19 USA death toll in mid April 2020 was only 25,000, nowhere near enough to yield a complete picture of how the mortality would play out across age cohorts. The first USA lockdown was in March 2020, so to claim they were a failure just a month later (and with certainty) is absurd and completely unsubstantiated.
Wrong.
We had European data that started in mid January. And Chinese data that started in end of December.
There was 4 months of data by mid April 2020.
Now here is just USA age group data from February to March 2020:
Here is BBC article march 2020.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51674743
Wrong.
We had European data that started in mid January. And Chinese data that started in end of December.
There was 4 months of data by mid April 2020.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52103747
Lockdown in China started in end January while Europe had to start lock down like in march 2020.
And infections and death started sky rocket then and hospitals were getting overwhelm.
March 2020 Italia
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/m...
“ Italian hospitals short of beds as coronavirus death toll jumps”
“ The number of deaths from coronavirus in Italy rose from 366 to 463 on Monday, according to the head of the civil protection agency. The total number of cases in Italy rose by 24% to 9,172, and of those originally infected, 724 had fully recovered. Some 733 people were in intensive care against a previous total of 650.
There are about 500 available beds for intensive care in Lombardy’s public health sphere, with another 160 in private care facilities. Despite a massive effort to locate additional space there are still not enough.”
Didn’t seem all the data were clear by April like u suggest or u speaking of April 2021 ?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52103747
Lockdown in China started in end January while Europe had to start lock down like in march 2020.
And infections and death started sky rocket then and hospitals were getting overwhelm.
March 2020 Italia
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/m...
“ Italian hospitals short of beds as coronavirus death toll jumps”
“ The number of deaths from coronavirus in Italy rose from 366 to 463 on
Follow along the conversation instead of blabering all over the place.
We had 4 months of global covid data by April 2020 regarding death rates amongst age groups. Pocket zeroes said we only had 1 month by April 2020 and he is completely wrong on that point.
Wrong.
We had European data that started in mid January. And Chinese data that started in end of December.
There was 4 months of data by mid April 2020.
Now here is just USA age group data from February to March 2020:
Here is BBC article march 2020.
USA public health policy is not run from information from other continents. We didn't even use Europe's proven COVID-19 test. Yet you believe we're going to make public health policy decisions based on early preliminary data from them?
Not sure why you believe showing an age breakdown chart from what I already told you was an insufficient sample size so early in the USA pandemic would somehow any weight to your unsupported assertion.
Nothing you wrote is accurate. The cumulative COVID-19 USA death toll in mid April 2020 was only 25,000, nowhere near enough to yield a complete picture of how the mortality would play out across age cohorts. The first USA lockdown was in March 2020, so to claim they were a failure just a month later (and with certainty) is absurd and completely unsubstantiated.
Not only am I accurate, I know what I am talking about because I followed this very closely.
Here is Italy data March 23 2020. About 3 months of Italy data.
So if you aggregate in April 2020, we knew everything we needed to know age wise regarding covid.
USA public health policy is not run from information from other continents. We didn't even use Europe's proven COVID-19 test. Yet you believe we're going to make public health policy decisions based on early preliminary data from them?
Not sure why you believe showing an age breakdown chart from what I already told you was an insufficient sample size so early in the USA pandemic would somehow any weight to your unsupported assertion.
Interesting. When proven wrong that we didn't have enough data by April 2020 (1 month not enough), now you pivot to say all the data around the world is to be discarded.
USA public health policy is not run from information from other continents. We didn't even use Europe's proven COVID-19 test. Yet you believe we're going to make public health policy decisions based on early preliminary data from them?
Not sure why you believe showing an age breakdown chart from what I already told you was an insufficient sample size so early in the USA pandemic would somehow any weight to your unsupported assertion.
Is 3M on infections a big enough sample size globally for you?
Close to 1 million infections in the USA by then.
25000 deaths absolutely is a large enough sample size amongst all age demographics.
Sample size too small!
Interesting. When proven wrong that we didn't have enough data by April 2020 (1 month not enough), now you pivot to say all the data around the world is to be discarded.
The discussion has been about the claim of the USA lockdowns. You're the one who pivoted to the world. Concentrate less about proving me wrong, and more about proving yourself right.
Of course questions need to be asked but the article you quoted presented conclusions, not questions. The purpose of most observational studies is to yield clues on what to investigate next - it represents the starting point of further research, not the endpoint claimed by your quoted author. The easiest way to differentiate a medical researcher from someone spewing bullshit from their basement is how freely they state definitive conclusions based on practically zero conclusive evidence.
I don't know. Seems like a fairly logical conclusion to arrive at given the data presented in the article. I mean you don't exactly have to be Einstein to figure out what the common denominator is. It's pretty bloody obvious. It's only an opinion at the end of the day though. I don't think anyone is asserting it's scientific proof of anything.
Not only am I accurate, I know what I am talking about because I followed this very closely.
Here is Italy data March 23 2020. About 3 months of Italy data.
So if you aggregate in April 2020, we knew everything we needed to know age wise regarding covid.
man...
the first case in Europe happen 24th january 2020...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_p...
"The global COVID-19 pandemic arrived in Europe with its first confirmed case in Bordeaux, France, on 24 January 2020, and subsequently spread widely across the continent."
Do u really think it take 1 week for covid after that to hit 10s of millions of people and to have a decent sizeable pool to see how it goes ?
By 17 March 2020, every country in Europe had confirmed a case,[3] and all have reported at least one death, with the exception of Vatican City.
you are the fastest thinker in human history my friend if u think april u knew everything about covid.
Nothing you wrote is accurate. The cumulative COVID-19 USA death toll in mid April 2020 was only 25,000, nowhere near enough to yield a complete picture of how the mortality would play out across age cohorts. The first USA lockdown was in March 2020, so to claim they were a failure just a month later (and with certainty) is absurd and completely unsubstantiated.
man we had all the rest of the world as well at that time, and when you have like 300k + cases under 20 and 0 deaths, while 10-30% of residents dead in 4-6 weeks in nursing homes which had outbreaks, how is that not enough to have a very clear picture?
after 200-300 monkeypox cases with no deaths most people already stopped giving any **** to it for example.
man...
the first case in Europe happen 24th january 2020...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_p...
Do u really think it take 1 week for covid after that to hit 10s of millions of people and to have a decent sizeable pool to see how it goes ?
you are the fastest thinker in human history my friend if u think april u knew everything about covid.
13 March 2020, Italian deaths to that point, what else did we need?
I don't know. Seems like a fairly logical conclusion to arrive at given the data presented in the article. I mean you don't exactly have to be Einstein to figure out what the common denominator is. It's pretty bloody obvious. It's only an opinion at the end of the day though. I don't think anyone is asserting it's scientific proof of anything.
I presented you examples on how easily seemingly obvious correlations turn out to be entirely non-causative. And that is actually the norm - for observational studies to hint at causative relationships that turn out not to be true. And those are population-level studies. It's even true for much more specific research, like how an in-vitro interactions show one effect while in-vivo show an entirely other. This is why the vast majority of drugs fail their endpoints and don't reach the market. If medicine were as easy as reaching "logical conclusions" based on simple observations then all diseases would have been cured by now.
man we had all the rest of the world as well at that time, and when you have like 300k + cases under 20 and 0 deaths, while 10-30% of residents dead in 4-6 weeks in nursing homes which had outbreaks, how is that not enough to have a very clear picture?
after 200-300 monkeypox cases with no deaths most people already stopped giving any **** to it for example.
It was a clear picture that lots of elderly people were dying. It was not a clear picture that young people wouldn't also start dying. What if the disease had a longer-term progression that caused seemingly robust cohorts to start dropping dead?
It's ironic considering how anti-vaxxers always harp on scary untested long-term effects of vaccines, yet here we are dismissing unknown long-term effects of the disease early in the pandemic and ready to construct an entire public health policy based on those unknowns.
It was a clear picture that lots of elderly people were dying. It was not a clear picture that young people wouldn't also start dying. What if the disease had a longer-term progression that caused seemingly robust cohorts to start dropping dead?
It's ironic considering how anti-vaxxers always harp on scary untested long-term effects of vaccines, yet here we are dismissing unknown long-term effects of the disease early in the pandemic and ready to construct an entire public health policy based on
It was extremely clear that young people wouldn't start dying: entire localities in northern italy near Bergamo (but not exclusively) had everyone infected already, and no young people died.
As for the magical "what if people with absolutely no significant symptoms who got infected 4 weeks ago start dying randomly later on", then explain monkeypox relaxation, why the same wasn't said then?
Public health is about everything health-related, there is no special reason to give more weight to a new pathogen added to 1000+ pathogens already existing, unless it's obvious that new pathogen is dramatically worse than anything else we already have around and cohabit with without fuss.
And it was obvious it wasn't, except for the elders.
Now what you do when elders, and elders exclusively, can die in mass for a new pathogen is a different thing, but claiming it wasn't absolutely crystal clear covid was completly insignificant for all young people, and for middle aged and older in good health, is a lie.
Other than the graph from 13/03/2020 i posted, there was the detailed report on who the victims were, and the median number of *severe, extreme, medical comorbidities* was 3. Not talking a little hypertension, i am talking stuff on your clinical data that has you followed by specialists because of chronic problems. 25% of the dead-with-covid people at that point had late stage dementia/alzheimer for example, in the italian sample.
It's ironic considering how anti-vaxxers always harp on scary untested long-term effects of vaccines, yet here we are dismissing unknown long-term effects of the disease early in the pandemic and ready to construct an entire public health policy based on those unknowns.
Antivaxxers rape logic in fact, which is why we shouldn't listen to them, but at least they purport some very rare things could happen later on, and the main objection was "why should i incur a little risk of a possible rare thing to avoid a risk i know is 0 for me".
Which silly as it is, makes more sense than "destroy the life of everyone because MAYBE the virus does something later on", without of course saving people from infections, as they will all get it later on anyway
It was extremely clear that young people wouldn't start dying: entire localities in northern italy near Bergamo (but not exclusively) had everyone infected already, and no young people died.
As for the magical "what if people with absolutely no significant symptoms who got infected 4 weeks ago start dying randomly later on", then explain monkeypox relaxation, why the same wasn't said then?
Public health is about everything health-related, there is no special reason to give more weight to a new pat
Nothing was extremely clear about COVID-19 in March of 2020. To claim otherwise is to rewrite history based on a rearward-facing lens. And dismiss the obvious counterpoints like long covid, which may not cause people to die but demonstrates how the unknowns of a disease have implications beyond the rush to declare "obvious" decisions ex post facto.
Very little is clear about COVID even now. To pretend it was clear in 2020 is hilariously naive.
COVID affects every organ in the body. We haven't really even begun to see what long term effects that has had on all the young people that they somehow think were unaffected by COVID.
Spoiler: they were affected.
It was extremely clear that young people wouldn't start dying: entire localities in northern italy near Bergamo (but not exclusively) had everyone infected already, and no young people died.
As for the magical "what if people with absolutely no significant symptoms who got infected 4 weeks ago start dying randomly later on", then explain monkeypox relaxation, why the same wasn't said then?
Your wrong and with all due respect your lack of awareness is very telling …
Do u believe virus like covid can mutate ?
Do u believe mutation can make a virus worst ?
Do u believe a virus tend to mutate as infections numbers increases ?
Now, wouldn’t it be better to find a cure or vaccine to a very contagious and dangerous virus to a specific age group,
BEFORE helping the virus to mutate into a potentially more dangerous virus to other age groups by doing nothing about preventing infection rates ?
U think it would be smart dealing with 2 dangerous virus simultaneously with no cure/vaccine instead of 1 ?
And that is again , without talking about the extra strain put on the health care system ending up unable to heal other medical emergency due to a flux of covid patient …
