Covid-19 Discussion
Has the wisdom and courage to realize that the cure has now become worse than the disease. It's time to open up. Stop moving the ball.
Hospital systems have not been overwhelmed.
Ventilators are not in shortage.
Treatments are being developed.
There is no cure or vaccine. This is not going away for four years.
The devastation of the cure:
Suicide rates picking up.
Massive economic devastation which causes depression, anxiety, obesity, again increase in suicide rates and directly impacts poorer economic areas.
Alcohol sales up 51%.
Domestic Abuse on the uprise
Child abuse on the uprise.
Hospitals that do not have COVID related issues are forced to lay off doctors and nurses as there are not enough patients to economically support it, meaning they won't have the staff to deal with COVID outbreaks.
Michael Avenatti gets released from prison
We all did our part. We sheltered (here in Pennsylvania for 5 weeks already).
Open the office buildings. Open the hair saloons. Get rid of stupid mask laws.
Continue to monitor outbreaks and in areas hospital systems become threatened, reenact tougher guidelines.
LET'S GET BACK TO WORK!
And stop shaming people that want common sense solutions. Waiting for a vaccine is stupid and unpractical.
If anything, indulge their deliberate ignorance to keep them at the poker table if you can stomach it
Literally own a whole house stacking morons still obsessed with the vaccines
Bless their adorable little hearts…
You must like pain or something. I admit I used to stubbornly argue too but surely you see you might as well talk to a brick wall?
Pretty soon you’ll be arguing with bots and they’ll exist in droves. 100s, 1000s of them
Effectively propagating the same stupid, ignorant **** regurgitated by the tiny brains in untold #s of forums
Colossal waste of time and energy
You must like pain or something. I admit I used to stubbornly argue too but surely you see you might as well talk to a brick wall?
Pretty soon you’ll be arguing with bots and they’ll exist in droves. 100s, 1000s of them
Effectively propagating the same stupid, ignorant **** regurgitated by the tiny brains in untold #s of forums
Colossal waste of time and energy
I mean, I'll stop eventually. I find it mildly entertaining and also find it's important to demonstrate how easily debunked all this nonsense is, at least once in a while.
The sheer amount of disinformational diarrhea on display here is...we'll say quite special, though.
I have no doubt that they will persist longer than I care to counter, but as long as I have the energy, like I said, I find it mildly entertaining.
Basically, elevated cytokine, which is part of the immune system's response to an antigen. In some people (rare, but seems to be slightly more common in adolescent males, for some unknown reason), the antigen is not being cleared as quickly, which can lead to elevated cytokine levels.
Which means, if someone got myocarditis after vaccination, they would most likely have gotten it after a covid infection, and it most likely would have been much worse.
Of course, this can occur with any antigen, so
So you are confirming it is the spike protein that is causing the myocarditis. Which also confirms what I said, that the vaccine produced spike protein is dangerous.
As for saying myocarditis from vaccination is mild. Lol. People have died from it. Death is not mild.
And if you are going to cite some study at least check who funds the authors.
From the study:
Funding: C.L.L. acknowledges funding from NIAID/NIH (R21AI144315-S1) and Yale University. A.B. is supported by the NIGMS/NIH Medical Scientist Training Grant (T32GM136651) and the Paul and Daisy Soros Fellowship. J.K. is supported by the NIGMS/NIH Medical Scientist Training Grant (T32GM136651). N.N.B. acknowledges funding from the Yale Center for Clinical Investigation and PCCTSDP/NICHD/NIH. T.S.S. acknowledges funding from Race to Erase MS Young Investigator award. I.Y. acknowledges funding from NIAID/NIH, Centers for Disease Control, and Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. A.I. acknowledges funding from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute. C.R.O. acknowledges funding from NIAID/NIH (K23AI159518). D.B. acknowledges funding from NIAID/NIH (R01HD108467). The contents of this work are solely the responsibility of the authors and do not necessarily represent the official views of the NIH.
Competing interests: C.L.L. reported an unrelated advisory/consulting role for Pharming Healthcare Inc. and unrelated funding to her institution from Ono Pharma. I.Y. reported being a member of the NIAID/COVPN mRNA-1273 Study Group; has received funding to her institution to conduct clinical research from Pfizer and Moderna outside the submitted work; and has an unrelated advisory/consulting role for Sanofi Pasteur and Merck. A.I. cofounded and consults for RIGImmune, Xanadu Bio, and PanV; consults for Paratus Sciences and InvisiShield Technologies; and is a member of the Board of Directors of Roche Holding Ltd. A.M.R. is an inventor of a patent describing the REAP technology and is the founder of and holds equity in Seranova Bio, the commercial licensee of this patent. D.B. is the founder of Lab11 Therapeutics. S.B.O. serves on various WHO advisory committees and on the boards of Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance, and Sabin Vaccine Institute.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
I mean come on Gorgo, do better. This is pathetic stuff.
So you are confirming it is the spike protein that is causing the myocarditis. Which also confirms what I said, that the vaccine produced spike protein is dangerous.
No.
As for saying myocarditis from vaccination is mild. Lol. People have died from it. Death is not mild.
Read what I said again. More carefully.
And if you are going to cite some study at least check who funds the authors.
From the study:
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
I mean come on Gorgo, do better. This is pathetic stuff.
Says the guy citing blogs by guys who whose credentials are "stand up comedian" and "I own a website."
Are you disputing something in the study? The peer-reviewers didn't. But you? Be specific.
lol
Run along.
Lol. The antigen is the spike protein. The spike protein is the antigen.
Myocarditis is triggered by the antigen. Or if you want to be really pedantic, the inflammatory response is triggered by the antigen. Same thing.
Therefore it is the spike protein that is causing the myocarditis. Cause and effect.
Trying to deny what you are saying by playing word games is pathetic.
I mean, I'll stop eventually. I find it mildly entertaining and also find it's important to demonstrate how easily debunked all this nonsense is, at least once in a while.
The sheer amount of disinformational diarrhea on display here is...we'll say quite special, though.
I have no doubt that they will persist longer than I care to counter, but as long as I have the energy, like I said, I find it mildly entertaining.
Can you please admit I am not an antivaxxer, not even a covid-vaccine antivaxxer, and can you please clearly state you can disagree with some or many of my other COVID takes but you still understand I have never even once said or implied mRNA vaccines are anything but a freaking miracle of technology?
Because I don't like to waste my time, nor I tend to like wasting other people time, and if you think I am a "right-wing nut job antivaxxer" then we are both wasting our time so we shouldn't discuss the topic anymore
Myocarditis is triggered by the antigen. Or if you want to be really pedantic, the inflammatory response is triggered by the antigen. Same thing.
lol, you almost had it. They aren't the same thing. Of particular note is that it could be any antigen. There's nothing specific about the spike protein. The point is you are trying to imply the spike protein is dangerous, when it is not doing anything differently than any other antigen would in this situation.
It's like saying pennies are dangerous because they can get stuck in your nostrils. Well, so is literally anything that gets stuck in your nostrils. The problem isn't the penny, it's the getting stuck in the nostril. And anyone that was trying to approach this practically knows that's where you concentrate your efforts. Not on villainizing pennies.
Listen it's ok that you don't understand why the distinction matters since you haven't been educated in medicine. But the distinction matters, and I've explained why. You can either learn from this or continue in your obstinate ignorance. I personally don't care.
Trying to pretend like you know enough to say something like this is what's pathetic.
Lol. The antigen is the spike protein. The spike protein is the antigen.
Myocarditis is triggered by the antigen. Or if you want to be really pedantic, the inflammatory response is triggered by the antigen. Same thing.
Therefore it is the spike protein that is causing the myocarditis. Cause and effect.
Trying to deny what you are saying by playing word games is pathetic.
No brian, we have been told bullshits by people with an agenda.
The spike protein is indeed one of the many antigens of SARS-CoV-2, the others being S1, S2, RBP, NP.
We used the spike protein because we had reasons to believe it would mutate less than other antigenes and we had a clear mapping of it from previous sarscov research.
But it is not it that causes myocarditis and cardiac infections in general.
The inflammation is an autoimmune response same as many/most of SARS-CoV-2 damages are autoimmune.
Basically the virus per SE is very weak. Very very very weak.
But being novel for everyone (back to 2020), it can cause the immune system to over react with bad consequences .
This is what countries which did NOT allow minors to be vaccinated anyway clearly knew, so we are talking people on "your" side on this.
Don't be fooled by people who gain by spreading misinformation. There are a lot of them on the left, but many on the right as well
Can you please admit I am not an antivaxxer, not even a covid-vaccine antivaxxer, and can you please clearly state you can disagree with some or many of my other COVID takes but you still understand I have never even once said or implied mRNA vaccines are anything but a freaking miracle of technology?
Because I don't like to waste my time, nor I tend to like wasting other people time, and if you think I am a "right-wing nut job antivaxxer" then we are both wasting our time so we shouldn't discuss
I didn't call you that. I will call you easily misled by pseudo-science, but you do at least get some stuff right, which is far more than I can say for Brian James. I'm happy to admit that.
Lol. The antigen is the spike protein. The spike protein is the antigen.
Myocarditis is triggered by the antigen. Or if you want to be really pedantic, the inflammatory response is triggered by the antigen. Same thing.
Therefore it is the spike protein that is causing the myocarditis. Cause and effect.
Trying to deny what you are saying by playing word games is pathetic.
To clarify this, here is the cause/effect chain:
1.vaccination (mRNA, specifically) - 2.spike proteins (antigen) produced - 3.inadequate clearance of antigen (rare, slightly elevated risk for adolescent male subgroup) - 4.elevated cytokine levels (part of immune response) - 5.inflammation (myocarditis)
Any antigen, not specifically spike proteins, can lead to 3-5. This does not indicate a specific, unique danger for 1-2. You can certainly consider reducing the occurences of 1-2 to prevent 3-5 from happening sometimes, but 3-5 will happen with other antigens (more often and more severely), and 1-2 prevents many of those.
we've discussed all this before but you ignore and continue spamming misinformation.
note the lack of cites on the first three bold assertions. mrna generated spike has never been determined to be "HARMLESS" if it strays from injection site and circulates, which it can in some instances. this AHA study found "individuals who developed postvaccine myocarditis uniquely exhibit elevated levels of free spike protein in circulation" and "the spike antigen itself, which evades antibody recognition rather than invoking immune hyperactivation, may contribute to myocarditis in these individuals."
another misinfo panel says "NO ORGAN INVOLVEMENT", again with no cite, because if you looked at cites like the biodistribution studies required for rollout in EU and Japan, it's detected in organs, with highest levels in the liver and ovaries. the levels were determined to be acceptable/safe, but the blanket assertions "NO INVOLVEMENT" and "DO NOT ACCUMULATE" are misinformation.
finally there's a cite on the "no mrna in breast milk" claim, but it's a non-peer-reviewed preprint (Golan et al). this Lancet journal study did find mrna in breast milk, cites three other studies that also did, notes Golan as the sole study that did not, and highlights shortcomings in the Golan study's design leading to improper detection methods. the Lancet study concludes breastfeeding after vaccination is probably fine, but also that there are unknowns and mothers should consult with their doctors regarding the decision to breastfeed within 48 hours post vaccination.
please stop spreading misinformation.
p.s. i love that site name... "Here at Unambiguous Science, we carefully extract any inconvenient ambiguities from the science to provide you with fact sheets that you can confidently post to your local Facebook groups and win arguments where you don't exactly know what you're talking about. If anyone notices our fact sheets are factually inaccurate, we recommend visiting our sister site Unambiguous MJ GIFs to help you dodge the issue and obfuscate with clownishness."
we've discussed all this before but you ignore and continue spamming misinformation.
note the lack of cites on the first three bold assertions. mrna generated spike has never been determined to be "HARMLESS" if it strays from injection site and circulates, which it can in some instances. this AHA study found "individuals who developed postvaccine myocarditis uniquely exhibit elevated levels of free spike protein in circulation" and "the spike antigen itself, which evades antibody recognition rath
Someone hasn't been reading the conversation and seen many of these attempts at a point already dispelled.
The breast milk one you probably have a point on. Nice. I didn't even look at that one because it has absolutely nothing to do with what was being discussed. So thanks, I guess.
But just for you, here:
Alright, my involvement here is going to reduce now. Today was a bit busy in here for me. I'll step aside and let the clown show proceed without resistance unless someone else wants to deal with this mess.
LOL. Get's his ass handed to him and decides he's not going to play anymore.
Alright, my involvement here is going to reduce now. Today was a bit busy in here for me. I'll step aside and let the clown show proceed without resistance unless someone else wants to deal with this mess.
I don't think there's a shortage of very serious people willing to take up the cause of the medical industrial complex so I'm sure someone will step in soon in your absence.
Gorgonian, you have been slaughtering these guys for months. I wouldn't take the clowns sending in reinforcements as a bad thing. Your posts are very informative and counter the noise from the chuckleheads.
To clarify this, here is the cause/effect chain:
1.vaccination (mRNA, specifically) - 2.spike proteins (antigen) produced - 3.inadequate clearance of antigen (rare, slightly elevated risk for adolescent male subgroup) - 4.elevated cytokine levels (part of immune response) - 5.inflammation (myocarditis)
Any antigen, not specifically spike proteins, can lead to 3-5. This does not indicate a specific, unique danger for 1-2. You can certainly consider reducing the occurences of 1-2 to prevent 3-5 from
So that's a rather long winded way of saying the spike protein (antigen) causes an inflammatory response which causes myocarditis. Just like I said.
Glad you agree with me at last.
Gorgonian, you have been slaughtering these guys for months. I wouldn't take the clowns sending in reinforcements as a bad thing. Your posts are very informative and counter the noise from the chuckleheads.
Thanks. Yeah, just once in awhile I remember I'm spending a lot of effort for basically no real reason. If I'm entertained, I'll be here. If I find it boring or annoying I'll hang it up for awhile.
Just going to step away for a bit. I'll probably be back.
Yep, it's a waste of time. They reached their conclusion on day 1 and have spent every day since walking around looking under rocks for clues and listening to kooks who echo their unsubstantiated conclusions. It's the opposite of the scientific method.
Thanks. Yeah, just once in awhile I remember I'm spending a lot of effort for basically no real reason. If I'm entertained, I'll be here. If I find it boring or annoying I'll hang it up for awhile.
Just going to step away for a bit. I'll probably be back.
Thank you for all your posts.
Sometimes you add facts for me to understand the nuances which has been very helpful.
I have been thinking of leaving as well because the level of arguments is so bad. People cherry picking data like Brian James citing children in England having an increase of unexplained deaths when just about every country in the word has had a huge reduction of unexplained deaths in 2022 and 2023 after huge and unprecedented increases in 2020 and 2021. And then Tien citing Sweden as a reason for not locking down during a pandemic because their rate of death per capitata was so much better than the US while skipping over the fact that Norway (neighboring country) had half the deaths per capita basically during 2020. And also not noting that the US had 18% of all Covid deaths in 2020 with only 4% of the world's population.
So I'll probably be gone as well.
Thank you for all your posts.
Sometimes you add facts for me to understand the nuances which has been very helpful.
I have been thinking of leaving as well because the level of arguments is so bad. People cherry picking data like Brian James citing children in England having an increase of unexplained deaths when just about every country in the word has had a huge reduction of unexplained deaths in 2022 and 2023 after huge and unprecedented increases in 2020 and 2021. And then Tien citing Sweden
Spare me the self righteousness Mr Rick.
Lockdowns for people under 55 were a complete failure in policy globally. You simply refuse to weigh the cost of these lockdowns and how we are paying for it in aggregate today.
I have zero problem if people that were pro mask mandate and lockdowns simply stopped posting trying to defend their positions.
