PAHWM AJs 2/5

Stack size update does change river play a bit because it doesnt look like he was setting up a jam on the river now.

AQ makes a lot of sense and there isn’t a ton of natural bluffs that check this flop

I guess my question is do you pure 4bet AK preflop in this spot? Because i still wanna keep our strongest Ax in our calling range to not be too exploitative.

If you always 4bet AK pre then i would call river with AJ, if you mix AK pre then you can call with AK+ only and fold AJ

Against this V I would 100% 4-bet AK OOP and mix IP weighted toward 4-bet.

But V and I have literally played 15 hands together.

Well from your description the guy loves to run big bluffs and we know he can triple barrel so I guess sigh and call river. Only way im folding river is if I think the fact that he checked flop actually means he has more value if in fact he is an opposite player. Knowing that he's a capable bluffer i think you just have to call.

Originally Posted by fatmanonguitar
****Apologies to all in this thread but I just realized I had the eff stack wrong! Sorry I’m an idiot. I actually had $725 and V covered. I presume this would convert some ppl who advocated fold pre to call pre. IMO it does not change flop or turn decision but may influence plan for river when deciding turn. ****

Flame away! lol.

V is a young Asian reg who is quiet with an AirPod but speaks with a thick accent. Has $100 and $500 chips in his pouch to buyin and reload. Aggressive. Recently he opened on the button and I defended bb with KT. He 3-barrelled a K high dry board with A high and I called him down.

H has A♠️J♠️ UTG+1 and opens to 15. Tight passive player on BTN calls. V in SB 3-bets to 70. BB folds. Hero?

H calls.

Flop ($160): A♥️5♣️2♠️

V checks. Hero checks. This was an easy decision for me.

Turn ($160): A♥️5♣️2♠️7♥️

V bets $110. Hero calls.

River ($380) A♥️5♣️2♠️7♥️Q♦️

V bets $300. Hero tank calls.

V tables A♦️Q♣️

I've always thrown up red flags when aggressive players 3bet, check the flop, then bet big. I know we're blocking aces, but how many times has he actually 3bet (not that two orbits is even enough time to label anyone really unless they're raising almost every hand)?

I hate flatting pre here, if he has AQ or AK he owns us, which are all likely parts of his range. I would wanna raise or fold but since we really haven't played with him too long (or know what his 3bet range is) I would just fold. By flatting pre we usually find ourselves in no man's land post flop as we did here.

I would fold the river since we just called a big turn bet so he should know we probably have an ace (esp as an early pfr'r) and he's looking to take advantage of that.

I'm not sure what I would do ott since I wouldn't be flatting pre to begin with unless it was a multiwa pot but that's just me.

I would have played it the same way you did. The Q is actually a great card for us. 2 and 5 are kinda bad but I wouldn't expect him to 3 bet A2s/A5s from SB vs UTG+1 that often.

I am not good enough to fold vs young aggressive player.

Geezus.

Why would you call? Is it because you saw him run a three-street bluff recently?

Catching V three-barrel bluffing once doesn't mean he's going to do it again. If anything, he'd be less likely to do it against you, so soon after you snapped him off with top pair, weak kicker. This guy probably thinks you're a calling station.

The Qd is one of the worst river cards we could see. We only beat bluffs here, and this guy isn't very likely to attempt bluffing you again. He might not even go for thin value with A5 or A2 here.

It's a bad card because it reduces the number of hands in OUR range that V needs to be concerned about if / when he bets.

Like, let's say this guy had AK. We might have AQ, and yet he still bets the Q. He might have AQ, but we could AK or AJ. He may not bet a K or a J on the river. If he's worried about AK, or A2, A5, or A7, he may not bet a brick river. If he bets the Q, obviously he's not worried about us having AQ if he has A2, A5, or A7.

He could play QQ this way - 3B pre, check the A-high flop, bet big on turn for value and protection when the flop checks through, binks a set on the river, and now he can target all our AX for value, knowing we're going to call, after we caught him running that 3-street bluff into our KT.

On each street, we should be trying to narrow opponent's range, and thinking about how V is likely narrowing our range. This is why I said in post 11 that if we bet flop, and got called, we'd be checking back most turns that aren't an A, J, or spade, and why I said in post 21 that if he checked to us on the river, I wouldn't bet any heart, any wheel card, or any K, Q, T or 9.

Some cards are better for us, some are better for him. As played, that Q is clearly better for him.

All due respect to the other people posting, they're overlooking a lot, and over-calling, if they're calling this V down, in this spot, with AJ.

You snapped off his 3-barrel bluff in that earlier hand after defending your BB with KT. In this hand, you opened UTG1, called his 3B, and called his >2/3 pot turn bet. He should not only be scared to bluff you, he should be concerned about going too thin for value against you.

If he's as aggro as his rep, it's also entirely possible he shows up with some weird yet still thick value, like 77 or 55.

Sorry, part of my post above was really unclear.

Going to the river, we're bluff-catching with AJs, or hoping he'll bet with worse value. What are his worse value hands, and what are his bluffs? How many of those are going to barrel the Q on the river, when we could have AQ in our range, as played.

Let's give him AK, or say he was trying to rep AK. We might fold AQ at some point, but we're certainly not folding it now that we made top 2. If we have AK or worse AX, the Q makes it harder for us to call a value bet. So he can't bet AK for value, he can't rep AK as a bluff, and he'll be less likely to bet AT or worse AX for value.

It's hard for him to rep AQ here, if he thinks we might have been hanging on with AQ, which we could have, when open UTG1, but then just flat call his 3B pre. If he thinks we might have AQ, he might not barrel with worse 2P here.

Yes, we caught him bluffing. Maybe he's a bluffer. But is he also a super-thin value better? Is he likely to go for another bluff, or super-thin value, against the opponent who recently snapped off a 3-street bluff with top pair, weak kicker?

We opened UTG1, called his 3B, and flat called a >2/3 pot turn bet on an ace-high, two-tone board, where the ace on board connects with the potential flush draw. If I were him, I'd be hesitant to value bet any hand worse than AQ here, and hesitant to bluff with my missed draws, which are mostly just going to be KQhh.

We were already losing to AK and AQ. If he had AK, he was ahead of all worse AX, but the Q should have slowed him down. We were ahead of all his worse AX. The Q should have slowed down all his worse AX. He shouldn't be turning KQ into a bluff here, or betting it for value, after we call turn.

All your points are valid. I obviously don’t post hands that I feel were played optimally.

I likely overestimated his LAG/maniac image.

In game I gave him some complete air like 89s but that is actually more likely to bet flop.

In my last post I acknowledged in hindsight his lack of many natural bluffs.

I would stand by the preflop call at least as a mix. I think flop check back is standard. Turn call felt standard after checking back but I probably should have called with the intention of folding to a large river bet (although I don’t generally like calling turns preparing to fold rivers - this may be an exception).

River was legit tricky spot and villain seems fairly polar.

I view this hand as mostly a 4! or fold pre but given your stack size there is at least some merit to call.

For what it’s worth I actually thought I had a pretty good Bluff catcher as it Blocks AK and AQ and unblocks back door heart draws.

It sucks when you lose to 55.

Huh? Results have been posted.

GTO wiz 6max 200bb to show us all how it's done:

H opens UTG (6max) 2.5x because he's a robot now
BTN calls
SB 3bets to 12 (AQo is a pure fold)
H call (AJs is mostly a call but some 4bet)
BTN fold

Flop:
SB check (does this 32% and mixes all the better hands in there)
H checks (AJs checks 63%)

Turn:
SB mostly checks or bets20% but bet75% is a 2.5% choice we go with for the lolz.
H pure calls AJs

River:
SB mostly checks (63%), but can bet35% (25%) or bet60% (11%) ... bet84% is a low prob. option at 1.2% (although it is AQs for value)
H calls AsJs 73% of the time and shoves the rest vs. bet84%
H pure calls AJs vs. bet60%.

Well done OP you are solver approved.

As for a real life fish giving you advice ... it's all mid. Just because he barrelled off once when he had the lead/range/etc. doesn't mean much. But he can also be a maniac and have also massively changed due to your calldown (less likely).

I'd be tempted to fold pre. (AJs vs. SB live 3bet is often crushed) and turn, probably not good enough to call turn and find the fold on the river.
If I was V I check this flop a _lot_ if I raised OOP, but much less so if I 3bet. Check flop bomb turn is super polarized though, and I wouldn't be doing it with AQ.

Saying all that, if I played it as you did I'd mostly note it as "life sucks and you lose sometimes".

If you’re going to fold river just fold pre.

Awesome thx

I agree your hand is a good bluff catcher, and villain can even value-bet worse hands.

I'm not sure I would expect most villains to take this sizing with a bluff, but it would not be that surprising to see some villains take this line with kq or kk.

And good post illiterat, tx for sharing.