Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
They destroyed 18 Hamas battalions (leaving maybe 6), and lost in the low hundreds doing so. Everyone figured it would take thousands of IDF dead to achieve that goal. The problem is that destroying 18 Hamas battalions isn't winning the war.
highly doubtful
rafiki,
Thanks and sounds reasonable and like you agree with the oft posted analysis in here that Israel cannot just simply defeat Hamas with bombing. But people keep saying the war cannot end until Hamas is defeated.
Today, it's fairly close to what blue helmets would do there. Obviously a week ago, this was not so.
I just wanted to make sure you were keeping up.
I feel like the blue helmets would kill fewer UN personnel.
If Israel's goal were just something like "significantly diminish Hamas' ability to fight and then negotiate a settlement" that might be a plan, but the blowing up all the infrastructure and the starvation is ****ed up and very against everyone's interest except for people who just want war or want suffering. And people who are just waiting for, or pretending to wait for, complete capitulation are just excusing it continuing.
rafiki,
Thanks and sounds reasonable and like you agree with the oft posted analysis in here that Israel cannot just simply defeat Hamas with bombing. But people keep saying the war cannot end until Hamas is defeated.
Netenyahu, by himself, veto'd every reasonable day after plan. The critical thinkers in this conflict were and are stunned, because it's unwinnable without. You HAVE to have a replacing force of Arabs that are funded and armed to rule for example. And even then that may fail. But without that you can't even begin to contemplate a "win". Bibi shot down every version of that. And it was something that had to be at the centre of the media coms strategy right away.
It will be very interesting to watch Israeli and Pro-Israeli messaging just before the American election. Stuff with regards to Biden for example. My guess (well it's more than I guess, I know) is that the Biden team is going to try to take credit for peace and de-escalation. It will be interesting to see if Israel lets him have that. If you want a Trump win, you want Biden's hands very dirty, and kind of right before people cast their votes. So let's see, there's nothing to do but wait.
Sinwar played his political cards as well as I've ever seen. He was able to because he doesn't have a replacement or polls. Bibi got absolutely outclassed by Sinwar. Let's see if Israel can regroup and do something similar. My sense is it's somewhat challenging (today) because Israel has far too many cooks in the kitchen. But the next government needs to start being far more clever I think. They got pants'd here.
We're talking about this week. Keep up Trolly.
If Israel's goal were just something like "significantly diminish Hamas' ability to fight and then negotiate a settlement" that might be a plan, but the blowing up all the infrastructure and the starvation is ****ed up and very against everyone's interest except for people who just want war or want suffering. And people who are just waiting for, or pretending to wait for, comp
This was the Battle of the Bastards. Sinwar sent Rickon running and Bibi fell right for the trap and charged.
And in fairness most of the world saw it coming.
more than half of his terrorist mates are dead, the few still alive are soon to be dead, and for the first time we can be 100 percent certain that hezbollah and the neighboring arab states have zero intention of rising up in an effort to help him achieve the destruction of israel and the liquidation of the jews who live in it aka palestinian freedom
victory!
Actually the 6 Day War's origins are similar to this one.
Technically who started this most recent war in your eyes? Because whatever you answer will have to apply to the 6 Day War too. In the 60's the Syrian-backed Palestinian guerillas staged raid after raid on Israeli soil, until the rest was history. I'm fine with however you want to view either case. Just be consistent.
more than half of his terrorist mates are dead, the few still alive are soon to be dead, and for the first time we can be 100 percent certain that hezbollah and the neighboring arab states have zero intention of rising up in an effort to help him achieve the destruction of israel and the liquidation of the jews who live in it aka palestinian freedom
victory!
But you're not taking the Jihadi view of this, which is actually the correct view in this instance (they look very far forward). The correct view is what you've done to advance your mission on the long term.
1) Hamas has broken down Israeli-USA relations to a level not seen in a long time. Victor can call him Genocide Joe, But Joe is the one that just tapped in and saved all of Gaza from certain defeat.
2) Global antisemitism is off the charts. Anti-Israel sentiment is off the charts
3) He is going to get a massive win on the hostage deal and free a lot of murders and brothers
4) He's created a world where you can pull an Oct 7th, and live to walk out of the tunnel. This emboldens the enemies of Israel
Now that's a snapshot of today. Today is just today. This was the first big battle in the war. The war obviously is not over. But round 1 did go to Sinwar I would say. At tremendous cost.
all you did was show that the UN approved Israel to invade Palestine.
A war versus civilians?
No the war is against hamas. Unfortunately hamas uses civilians as human shields
I'm asking WHY do you think he favored them. What reason do you think he had
I didn't ask any of you, but since you answered, I'll answer. There are now less than 1000 IDF Troops in Gaza, all from the Nahal. They do one thing exactly now, which is protect the corridor that splits North/South. The corridor is the aid corridor, the troop corridor, and also the means to make sure Hamas doesn't go North. They tend to get attacked, so there's a defensive res
ok my food isn't going to burn, I can type something up.I believe Israel has essentially lost the first phase of this war. Not in the way Victor would think though. If you want to measure damage done to the enemy, the IDF outperformed everyone's wildest expectations. They destroyed 18 Hamas battalions (leaving maybe 6), and lost in the low hundreds doing so. Everyone figured it
I think they are waiting on trump as well
If Israel's goal were just something like "significantly diminish Hamas' ability to fight and then negotiate a settlement" that might be a plan, but the blowing up all the infrastructure and the starvation is ****ed up and very against everyone's interest except for people who just want war or want suffering. And people who are just waiting for, or pretending to wait for, comp
There were tunnels under the infrastructure. They had to destroy the infrastructure
To try to prevent a viable Palestinian state would be a secondary reason. The primary reason is that he's identified as a hardliner and conflict has been good for him so far in elections.
I believe your secondary reason would be the primary reason
If you think he wasn't surprised by this and wanted this you should be ashamed
He obviously underestimated what hamas would do
Btw have you guys seen this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ImTheMainCharac...
It's a sidebar. but hoooooly. The balls on this guy
1) usa israel relations have not changed in any meaningful way. usa will continue to support israel due to a million reasons including historical ties, shared norms and values, the maintenance of influence over middle east oil and, most importantly, realpolitik vs iran
2) it'll pass
3) the ones which try to advance the cause of israel's destruction will get an IDF rocket up the arse sooner or later
4) live to walk out of the tunnel?? i refer you to 3)
He explicitly said it was to maintain a divided Palestine and ease pressure for a state. Cites upstream.
1) usa israel relations have not changed in any meaningful way. usa will continue to support israel due to a million reasons including historical ties, shared norms and values, the maintenance of influence over middle east oil and, most importantly, realpolitik vs iran2) it'll pass3) the ones which try to advance the cause of israel's destruction will get an IDF rocket up the a
I don't think you've been entirely following what just happened the last week then. Biden and Pelosi just put all 4 of their balls on the table and Israel massively blinked. It's something I don't think many in Israel saw coming. Like I just said, there are now less than 1000 combat troops in Gaza. The leash got tugged very hard.
In Israel, the overwhelming sentiment is the USA played them and didn't have the stomach to see their ally to the end of it. Ukraine is looking down the barrel of the same issue.
No the war is against hamas. Unfortunately hamas uses civilians as human shields
I'm asking WHY do you think he favored them. What reason do you think he had
I think they are waiting on trump as well
Hamas is full of civilians tho
Can we vote on putting this guy in a containment thread? Like aren't we there yet?
I don't think you've been entirely following what just happened the last week then. Biden and Pelosi just put all 4 of their balls on the table and Israel massively blinked. It's something I don't think many in Israel saw coming. Like I just said, there are now less than 1000 combat troops in Gaza. The leash got tugged very hard.In Israel, the overwhelming sentiment is the USA
What happened exactly
No one is coming out of the tunnels, some of them will stroll back home from the beaches of Qatar, I'm told.
I believe your secondary reason would be the primary reason
If you think he wasn't surprised by this and wanted this you should be ashamed
He obviously underestimated what hamas would do
Thinking Arab leaders have no regard for human life but ****ing Netanyahu is above that is you being racist and you should be ashamed.
This is your worst post ever. Put him on ignore if you don't like him and don't tell other people what they can say or who they can hear from.
Btw Boids, do you know how long it took for Hamas to launch rockets at Israel from Khan Younis from the point that they just withdrew?
Spoiler
5 hours. It only took 5 hours.
