Israel/Palestine thread

This might be your biggest compliment then. I accept.

If you serve a day in Hamas and then you quit ,are you a civilian?

Couldn’t find any mention of Hamas’ military on Wikipedia , where can I read about it

Kinda draws into question the utility of blowing up Khan Younis in the first place.

In this exact moment, it's hard to disagree. If the whole thing ended today it was a colossal waste of every possible thing you want to measure. Specially if the hostage deal is as bad as everyone is expecting. And it went exactly how Sinwar wrote it up too, minus perhaps the low rate of dead IDF.

We'll have to circle back in the Fall to see the question again then. The war clearly isn't over. But the first chapter definitely now is.

Or maybe a better bet of trying to force bidens hand in the build up to the usa election. if they can force anything dramatic then will biden sit by or turn his back while trump makes hay?

Bit tired from the long day. Elaborate?

And btw one thing I want to say to be clear:

Oct 7th needed a big response. There was no turn the other cheek situation there. I'm just disappointed in how the war cabinet ultimately managed the response over the full 6 months. There were a lot of mistakes that I think just come with lack of planning, vision, and overconfidence.

lol Zionists get really mad that they cant just say they are all terrorists who deserve it

There's an opportunity to deeply embroil the usa in this mess on israels side. Trump winning might do it but forcing biden's hand with trump breathing down his neck might be a better bet.

I've no real idea what those who talk about destroying hamas mean but if it means anythign it's going to involve a much bigger conflict with the usa stuck in it.

I agree. The opportunity to try to substantially defeat hamas politically should have been leapt upon. Instead this monstrous stupidity was unleashed.

US already is and has been for decades. Whether that will continue as the bodies pile up is a key question.

Hamas has no regard for human life

Netanyahu has many times traded thousands of hostage just to save 1 life

Lol you

lol you dont say

things are bad for the Zionist genocide supporters when even cnn is turning on you.

Wouldn’t u agree “some” Arab “leaders” might care only about arabs life but have no regard about other human life’s ?

Sure. There are probably "some" Arab "leaders" who care about Arab lives and affirmatively want to murder all non-Arabs.

If hamas cared about their own people's lives they wouldn't steal aid to build weapons and tunnels

Duh

Nah. Hamas leaders have specifically shown time and time again they are perfectly ok with taking actions that are guaranteed to result in a massive loss of human life, especially of their followers and Jihadis. It isn't "racist" to point out reality.

That isn't to say that Hamas is immoral. It just has a different value system than you or I. First off, they are zealots for a religion whose literal definition is "submission." They sincerely believe that sacrificing thousands, or even millions, for the greater religious cause is the morally correct decision. There is also a sincere belief that eternal paradise awaits martyrs who die in the struggle against the Jews. And I would say in the course of human history much more people have thought along this lines than Western liberal democracies, whose actual concern for human life is the historical aberration.

There is also the simple reality that using their own civilian populace as shields is their greatest source of leverage against Israel. I am sure they would love to fight them on a field of battle with their own tanks and planes and bombs, with their women and children hundreds of miles away, but that isn't an option so they are playing the hand they are dealt.

That isn't to say Israel shouldn't be trying to win this war. There is no doubt the Palestinians goal is to destroy Israel and enslave/murder most of its citizens. And given the virulent antisemitism of the Muslim world as a whole surrounding Israel, it would be a fools errand to allow such a genocidally motivated populace to remain with any capabilities to make their desires a reality.

I believe you can completely empathize with the Palestinian position, and still feel it necessary to radically alter the incentive structure that has permitted the last 80 years of conflict. The Palestinians are addicted to Jihad and martyrdom, and the rest of the world has been their dealer; who keeps giving them the resources and encouragement to follow this completely nihilistic, destructive path.

IF Palestinian lives were your priority, the clear morally correct decision would be completely removing their ability to war with Israel. Until this happens, there is literally nothing rational Israel could do that would move the needle much in ameliorating the situation.

Frankly, I dont see how most of you can actually say you are concerned with Palestinian well-being, and still support Hamas. There is nothing positive for the Palestinian people down that path. If that is your position, at best you can say you believe Palestinians should be able to decide their own destiny, and just accept nothing good is going to happen (Inshallah I believe is how you would describe it). But it isn't Israels' obligation to allow themselves to be pulled down such as self-destructive path.

“Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes”

That's from their covenant.

"Whoever is killed by a Jew receives the reward of two martyrs, because the very thing that the Jews did to the prophets was done to him."

That's the former minister of culture in Gaza

The newer term now is Istishhadi, meaning "martyrous one". Remember we were talking Fedayeen not that long ago. Hamas actually invented amaliyyat istishhadiyya, that's their baby. It's a whole level up on Fedayeen. They've elevated martyrdom to levels almost not seen anywhere in the world actually.

"The only way to impose our conditions is inevitably through our blood."

Deif's quote will live on forever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyXS9072...

"Today you [Israelis] are fighting divine soldiers, who love death for Allah like you love life, and who compete among themselves for Martyrdom like you flee from death."

There's no racism here. This is a straight up from their words, customs and beliefs, to your eyes. There's nothing to even dress up here. These are just the indisputable facts.

Israel should have entered rafah one month ago.

No sure why you would deny that many are proud to be martyrs

you want me to find a sample of all of the deranged things that Zionists say? like that Army Rabbi who said its fine to rape the children of your enemies.

Yeah, no one cares.

you seem to care a lot

I dont think comparing yourself to Sparta or aspiring to be Sparta is the win they think it is.

it is pretty apt tho.

They couldn't have. They're basically in a prolonged and very difficult slog to get everyone out of Rafah. There's no going in without that.

But also your way has it happen during Ramadan. Would have caused a holy war.