Israel/Palestine thread

Ohio State is going off now.

I dont want to get too overconfident, but I think the genocide lovers lost. it might take awhile but the dustbin of history is awaiting your ideology.

You under estimate the feds.

Also school ends in like two weeks

I probably do. these kids will get integrated in the machine like he anti-Vietnam protesters. but I want it to be so.

I struggle with the encampments but calling the cops is dicked up

This one is easy. We should do everything we can to support the goals of Israel to be a Jewish state. Islamofascism sucks. it destroys everything it touches. Israel isn't perfect, but look at Israel versus Islamofascist states like Houthis, Gaza and Iran. Easiest choice in the world.

Vic is bringing the poetry. Ploug on, my wayward son!

I do appreciate your general "glass half full" outlook, but you are delusional. The Arab world is nothing but failed states. The whole theocratic tribalism thing just doesn't work when trying to create nation states. And Palestinians are more tribal and theocratic than most.

There is no reason to expect anything but civil war, turning Israel into a failed state, and generally just regional chaos by trying to integrate 5 million Palestinians into Israel.

No sane actor wants this. Every Arab nation would be against such a move. There is no upside. It is all downside. No one but Hamas and Western SJP agitators are even demanding this.

Sane world actors (basically everyone but Iran and their proxies) actually more or less support Israel attempting to bring closure to the Palestinian project by defeating Hamas, Hezbollah and other Iranian proxies. Most just wish Israel was more willing to sacrifice more of their own people to limit Palestinians casualties. At this point, it is just a matter of managing the antisemitic western left and Arab street. Not to say Israel will be successful; it is a small country fighting much more numerous forces on many fronts.

And there isn't even any real moral case for such a suicidal move. Even with Israel's "wronging" of the Palestinians this still makes the ledger something like 1,000:1 in the Muslim Arab vs Jew grievance sweepstakes. And the next Arab nation or person who shows the slightest remorse or offers an apology for their absolutely horrible behavior the last 1400 years (ESPECIALLY the last 100) will be the first. There is really no wrong to make right, unless the Arab Muslim world developed a conscience for the first time in its history and righted about 100 wrongs first.

What is the solution? The protestors have no coherent, reasonable demands to negotiate on. And the universities dont want their campus to turn into something that looks like a Portland homeless encampment, especially right before commencement ceremonies.

Personally, I think they should just let the protestors do their thing and let it play out; but that is because I find it all so entertaining; much like the nightly Antifa battles with police that kept me highly entertained the Summer of Floyd.

Hard to keep up with this thread but in regards to the rise in anti-semetic incidents since 10/7, I would expect there was also a rise in anti-american incidents across the world after the 2003 Iraq invasion. If your country starts wiping out 1,000's of civilians people naturally get kind of pissed off. Probably it's stirring up people who already had anti-american/semite sentiment but it just comes with the territory.

The antifa/proud boy scuffles were much more entertaining

I know where you stand. Everyone does. Team Israel no matter what. Genocide for the greater good and all that stuff. I'm criticizing the passive-aggressive members of this thread

There isn't a problem to solve. Like you say, let it play out.

It's interesting that you compared rise in antisemitism after 10/7 to the start of the Iraq war instead of comparing to antisemitism rising after the invasion of Gaza began.

As is your comparison would also suggest that there would be a wave of anti-American incidents after 9-11, which I don't think is true; as you suggest it happened after the Iraq war started. The fact that there's rising antisemitism after a terrorist attack against Jews is largely the point being made by the pro-Israel side.

and how many on the IDF side you think ?

how many Palestinians in West bank ?

how many settlers in the west bank ?

how many Jewish kids in college campuses?

I only use 10/7 as a date as that is where the data collection cites started. It's probably a dishonest starting point by the ADL and would be nice to see a breakdown of rise in incidents broken down to two parts. 10/7 to invasion day and post invasion. I'd be willing to bet anti-semetic incidents would be flat for part one and the rise started to happen once dead babies started showing up on people's Twitter feed.
As for anti American incidents, there were massive protests across the world. I think Italy set the record for largest protest ever, anywhere. You don't think some Starbucks and McDonald's got some additional rocks through their windows across the world?

You are just wrong. Just look at the posts in the first few pages of this thread.

It also just defies human nature to think such incidents wouldn’t rise in the after math of Oct 7th for the same reasons you shouldn’t expect people who hate (anything in general) to stay silent if something happens to the thing in question.

For example, I hate American football and can’t but help make fun of Chiefs fans for bemoaning Taylor Swift overshadowing… what did the Chiefs win again?

If it's dishonest by ADL then it's because they don't want any mention of the invasion involved, but as far as the data goes what you're saying would actually skew the results down. For the discussion regarding feeling safe on campus, this would mean antisemitic incidents were even higher than ADL reported because they also had to include a significant time period where antisemitic incidents were down.

I meant after 9-11 I don't think that anti American incidents had a huge rise in most western countries. After the invasion began they certainly did.

You would be wrong, the anti semitic rats came out day 1 and never stopped

Maybe I'm out of touch but from what I remember of 10/8 it felt very similar to 9/12.
A lot of the world was pretty horrified and I stand with Israel was a pretty common post. Of course some (a lot) of the middle east countries may have been having parties but I don't think it was the cue for closet anti-semites in America to start acting on their feelings.
I know there were reports of people shooting off fireworks but overall sentiment seemed to be pretty pro Israel and people accepting action was going to be taken. It's when people see the reality of war their feelings start to shift. Then you have atrocities that are a part of every war getting reported and the dial starts getting cranked.

Yeah, sorry if I've worded it wrong but that's what I meant. Post 9/11 or 10/7 a lot of sympathy/solidarity. Once bombs start dropping it all goes to hell and people start switching sides.