Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
lets not compare the current
-mass murder of people
-mass decapitation of people
-mass burying alive of people
-mass burning alive of people
-mass blowing up of people
-mass starvation of people
-mass amputation of people
-mass torture of people where they are forced to sit blindfolded and in diapers for months on end
-destruction of all infrastucture including electricity, water, housing
to the holocaust he says.
then proceeds to do just that
Israel didn't have a Wansee conference or a death camp like Sobibor or Auschwitz or Treblinka. Israeli doctors never conducted Mengele like experiments on Palestinians, or made Palestinians were yellow crescents.
Such comparisons certainly trivialise the Holocaust.
rules for thee but not for me.
you know what I find offensive? the trivialization and justification and outright lying about the most atrocious mass murder event of my lifetime.
Can I compare Israel to other highly developed and industrialized nations committing mass murder on a captive population? well, when I find a more apt comparison I will use it.
It's why I said sections and you know damn well such a comparison isn't apt. And why do all Jewish people have to be offended as if they're a hive mind like The Borg? It's offensive to some of the Jewish community and more specifically some of the posters itt , not all of them Jews either, so why even go there to begin with unless your intention is to at best antagonise and at worse have a sly dig? Either way it's bad faith arguing which we're trying to get rid of.
bc I dont care about your crocodile tears while Zionists are committing
-mass murder of people
-mass decapitation of people
-mass burying alive of people
-mass burning alive of people
-mass blowing up of people
-mass starvation of people
-mass amputation of people
-mass torture of people where they are forced to sit blindfolded and in diapers for months on end
-destruction of all infrastucture including electricity, water, housing
It's why I said sections and you know damn well such a comparison isn't apt. And why do all Jewish people have to be offended as if they're a hive mind like The Borg? It's offensive to some of the Jewish community and more specifically some of the posters itt , not all of them Jews either, so why even o there to begin with unless your intention is to at best antagonise and at worse have a sly dig?
Something being offensive to some section of an ethnicity isn't sufficient reason on its own for action, especially when other sections of the same ethnicity are clearly diametrically opposed to that view.
The real question is why are you ignoring the expressed views of the second set?
lets not compare the current
-mass murder of people
-mass decapitation of people
-mass burying alive of people
-mass burning alive of people
-mass blowing up of people
-mass starvation of people
-mass amputation of people
-mass torture of people where they are forced to sit blindfolded and in diapers for months on end
-destruction of all infrastucture including electricity, water, housing
to the holocaust he says.
then proceeds to do just that
rules for thee but not for me.
you know what I find offensive?
I'm respectfully asking you to quit with the Nazi comparisons. You can make an argument and criticise Israel and the IDF without comparing them to Nazis every second or third post. Give it a rest.
I dont answer to you.
I'm respectfully asking you to quit with the Nazi comparisons. You can make an argument and criticise Israel and the IDF without comparing them to Nazis every second or third post. Give it a rest.
If the Holocaust had been primarily against another ethnic group and not Jewish people, would you still object to the Gaza comparison? Serious question.
Something being offensive to some subsection of an ethnicity isn't sufficient reason on its own for action, especially when other subsections of the same ethnicity say "It's genocide".
The real question is why are you ignoring the expressed views of the second set?
I've already told you it's a bad faith argument at best and anti Semitic at worst. Why are you ignoring the expressed views of the first set?
Maybe some black people don;t find the n word offensive, should posters therefore be allowed to use it? Same principal applies here. It's irrelevant if you or some Jews don't regard it as anti Semitic. It's equally considered anti Semitic by other Jews and non Jews for that matter as it's always the Nazis innit? Never Stalinist Russia or Maoist China or the authoritarianism of Lukashenko, no. The comparison has to be of the group which engaged in genocide against Jews doesn't it? Just to hammer things home and give 'em a reminder? The fact that it's considered anti Semitic even if you disagree it should be, is reason enough to refrain from it.
So again... why even go there?
If the Holocaust had been primarily against another ethnic group and not Jewish people, would you still object to the Gaza comparison? Serious question.
Yes as nothing remotely approaching the Holocaust is happening in Gaza and if you think it is, then you need to share the clearly groovy drugs you're taking.
I've already told you it's a bad faith argument at best and anti Semitic at worst. Why are you ignoring the expressed views of the first set?
Maybe some black people don;t find the n word offensive, should posters therefore be allowed to use it? Same principal applies here. It's irrelevant if you or some Jews don't regard it as anti Semitic. It's equally considered anti Semitic by other Jews and non Jews for that matter as it's always the Nazis innit? Never Stalinist Russia or Maoist China or th
It hardly needs to be said that some Jewish people and Jewish groups regard any comparison of Israel's acts with the Nazis unacceptable and anti-semitic. This is well-known. And I totally agree that great care has to be taken before making such comparisons.
Antisemites don't want to participate unless they can call Jews Nazis
If your goal is to get anyone who doesn't hate Jews to leave you may succeed
Antisemites don't want to participate unless they can call Jews Nazis
If your goal is to get anyone who doesn't hate Jews to leave you may succeed
Maybe that's true of anti-semites but no one here is "calling Jews Nazis". They are comparing the Israeli government's actions with those of Nazi Germany, and its anti-semitic of you to equate Israel with Jews.
Maybe that's true of anti-semites but no one here is "calling Jews Nazis". They are comparing the Israeli government's actions with those of Nazi Germany, and its anti-semitic of you to equate Israel with Jews.
thats not even what my post was. I just mentioned 2 groups that I dont want to associate with in my personal life. at best there was a tenuous implicit comparison.
Not having a state of Israel is not necessarily anti-Zionist, at least that's what the moron and Zionist Albert Einstein thought.
Whatever well-intentioned bigbrains like Einstein thought, and whatever the Balfour Declaration said about the Jewish national homeland being established without prejudice to the rights of the native Arab population, Zionism follows its founder, Herzl, who in The Jewish State in 1896 clearly argued for Jewish supremacy in Palestine.
Let the sovereignty be granted us over a portion of the globe large enough to satisfy the rightful requirements of a nation; the rest we shall manage for ourselves.
Our first object is, as I said before, supremacy, assured to us by international law, over a portion of the globe sufficiently large to satisfy our just requirements.
The Arabs were beneath consideration and were simply supposed to go away. Herzl was interested in the way the US government had seized 'Indian' land for settlement, but thought Zionists could do it in a better organised manner.
In America the occupation of newly opened territory is set about in naive fashion. The settlers assemble on the frontier, and at the appointed time make a simultaneous and violent rush for their portions.
We shall not proceed thus to the new land of the Jews. The lots in provinces and towns will be sold by auction, and paid for, not in money, but in work. The general plan will have settled on streets, bridges, waterworks, etc., necessary for traffic. These will be united into provinces. Within these provinces sites for towns will be similarly sold by auction. The local groups will pledge themselves to carry the business property through, and will cover the cost by means of self-imposed assessments. The Society will be in a position to judge whether the local groups are not venturing on sacrifices too great for their means. The large communities will receive large sites for their activity. Great sacrifices will thus be rewarded by the establishment of universities, technical schools, academies, research institutes, etc., and these Government institutes, which do not have to be concentrated in the capital, will be distributed over the country.
The personal interest of the buyers, and, if necessary, the local assessment, will guarantee the proper working of what has been taken over. In the same way, as we cannot, and indeed do not wish to obliterate distinctions between single individuals, so the differences between local groups will also continue. Everything will shape itself quite naturally. All acquired rights will be protected, and every new development will be given sufficient scope.
Israel didn't have a Wansee conference or a death camp like Sobibor or Auschwitz or Treblinka.
as far as we know the settlers just shoot palestinian people and then take their land. sometimes they raped them to death.
thats about as SS as it can get.
that and the random shooting of people.
now they are just straight up bombing infants.
victor, show him the video where they joke about having raped people to death.
where is it? its somewhere in this thread.
lol of course one side would argue that nothing they can do could be compared to the holocaust. Rules for thee but not for me
You can't compare anything Israel's doing to the Holocaust at this point. The methodology isn't there. On the other hand, the people who suffered most from Nazi aggression were the Soviets, with about 20 million killed, yet the Soviets are (not wrongly) compared to the Nazis because of Stalin's vast appetite for repression and killing.
victor, show him the video where they joke about having raped people to death.
where is it? its somewhere in this thread.
oh I think its from the documentary Tantura. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt16378034/
some pretty chilling remarks in there but he doesnt say they raped her to complete death.
Thanks and I was actually considering pmng you regarding this specific issue.
Some Jewish organisations such as The WJC & ADL regard such comparisons as anti Semitic and diminishing/trivialising the Holocaust.
https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/n...
You made a valid point earlier on refraining from calling people anti Semites but being welcome to label a post as such ,with argument to back
Let me consider your points here and consult a few other smarter people, and I'll get back to you. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. 😀
